Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Two Dogs, Pirate on August 30, 2008 at 9:24

Probably a Spanish Land Grant. Go to the State Land Office and go into historical records and put in your section, township and range. This is a very interesting website if you lake old documents and maps. I think that the survey maps changed in the 1930's and the sections were drawn in. Just Google Louisiana State Land Office (SLO) to get the web address.

Permalink Reply by Two Dogs, Pirate on August 30, 2008 at 10:57

Did you read some of the survey reports from way back in the 1800's, it is amazing what those people were able to do. The area around where I have been working has some large sections that don't show up on the tax assessors plats as being any different in size from any other section, whereas it is plainly defined on the old maps. This could be of great value to the landowners in determining whether to have a survey done before granting a lease. One of my Lessors had a straight quarter quarter by description but the survey revealed that it was 45 acres, lets see 5 acres times $10,000 equals $50,000 more for the mineral owner, well worth the price of a survey.

Permalink Reply by msfva on August 31, 2008 at 0:04

Don't assume you'll get only $10k/acre. Although Shell has not reported results from its two wells in Northern Sabine Parish, you know they are good because Shell just petitioned for 31 new units. If Messenger also is good, everyone in that area ought to be pushing for $30k/30%. Don't lease for less. If prices in Southern DeSoto are starting to go for over $20,000/acre (and are not leveling off), why shouldn't you demand high prices too?

Permalink Reply by Two Dogs, Pirate on August 31, 2008 at 5:09

msfva, I only used $10,000 as a figure, not as an amount to lease for, I would never go there.

Permalink Reply by Two Dogs, Pirate on August 31, 2008 at 5:40

Who knows, a complete title examination would have to be done and a title opinion rendered from an oil and gas attorney.

Permalink Reply by Two Dogs, Pirate on August 31, 2008 at 5:42

May be some sort of land grant. The Los Ormegas Grant has the Heirs of Samuel Davenport on it.

Permalink Reply by Skip Peel - Mineral Consultant on August 31, 2008 at 15:59

KB. Francois Grapp(e) was a friend of and interpreter for the Caddo Indians in the late 1700's. Grappe who was called Touline by the Caddo, was a half-breed Caddo Indian whose father was French. Reared as a "white man", he returned to the Indians and became their "greatest and best friend" and "counsellor for good".

In the Caddo Treaty of Cession, executed by the Caddo to the United States in July 1, 1835, a reservation of land was made to the three sons of Francois Grappe which was claimed to reestablish a previous land gift from 1801, which had been deeded, signed and ratified by the Spanish in Natchitoches. The reservation was not discovered until the ratification and signing of the treaty by Pres. A. Jackson in Feb. 2, 1836 and was a point of controversy. The Caddo alleged that Colonel Jehiel Brooks, Indian agent acting for the U.S. government, inserted this second reservation without their knowledge or consent as an attempt to reestablish a previous "gift". After ratification, Brooks purchased the "whole reserve for $6,000". The first historical instance of a "land flip" in NW. LA. The "reserve" was contested by Captain Henry Miller Shreve who claimed that the land would have been sold by the government for "$15,000, if not double that amount".

That's the short version of the story. The other reservation in the Treaty of Cession was to Larkin Edwards. Edward's "square mile reservation" was purchased for $5,000 by Angus McNeil. McNeil sold interests to seven investors including Shreve and it was located on Cane's Bluff, now downtown Shreveport. The group, Shreve Town Company, begin the development of the City of Shreveport. Edwards received the reservation as a gift from the Caddo because "for years he had been their champion and faithful interpreter".

Permalink Reply by Iris on August 31, 2008 at 22:03

Two dogs, the plats for T18N, R14W Caddo in the 1800's, appear too dim to read . Any suggestions. I got my best info so far from looking at land patents....

Permalink Reply by Bill on August 30, 2008 at 20:09

Thanks for the link Two Dogs........Very interesting site.

Permalink Reply by Bird on August 30, 2008 at 20:42

A man is Sabine Parish, was a day before getting a check for 12,500 per acre and they called and said the State of Louisiana owned his mineral rights from 1941. Back then, if property went through a sheriff sale, the state kept the mineral rights, but I hear that has changed these days. He has leased it before for 50 an acre.

Permalink Reply by Two Dogs, Pirate on August 31, 2008 at 5:33

I have found several tracts that the state owns minerals on, all were lost during the Great Depression to tax sales. Many through the years have not done their homework or done a proper run of the land and mineral title. There is no shortcut in examining the title, you have to go back to a solid deed before 1921 then run the title to present. I don't know of the law being changed but the chances that someone not bidding at a tax sale are slim. People during the Great Depression were all mostly in the same boat, no one had any money to bid on property at tax sales. This is the main time frame that this happened. I had a Lessor with this same situation but the state didn't have all the minerals, only 7/16. I had taken a surface to 5000 foot lease back in 2003 or 2004, the shalers took a lease after mine on his deeper rights. I had to go back and get an extension to the lease and the Lessor questioned me on why I wasn't paying him for all the land because the shalers paid for all of it, my reply was that the shalers didn't do their homework. Some are going to get caught in a trick bag on this. Most leases have language built in stating that the Lessor warrants title to the property. The lessee could demand their monies to be paid back.

Permalink Reply by Jerry on October 15, 2008 at 18:58

The question of sections was asked to Mr. Ashford | GIS Analyst, Geological Division | Office of Conservation and his reply was as follows:





The area in question is actually Section 37 of the Public Land Survey System (PLSS). I have attached a screenshot of a state land plat from the Division of Administration’s Office of State Lands. If you look at a 1:24000 USGS topographic map in this same area, you’ll notice that section 37 is labeled. However, the wells in this area appear to refer to section numbers 20-22, 27-29, and 32-24. These section numbers could be referring to some type of proprietary section data (e.g. Tobin); however, we are only able to show public domain data on our website (e.g. PLSS sections).

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