Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Woodardville Willy on January 11, 2010 at 8:01

Try this link. It should answer some of your questions. Fair price is what you can get them up to!
http://www.sbmoonlaw.com/lawblog/?p=1
WW

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Permalink Reply by Bacon on January 11, 2010 at 10:37

$300-$500+ a rod not including access and damages gets you between $13K & $22K. A good experienced industry attorney will easily pay for himself at that level.

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Permalink Reply by Jack Blake on January 11, 2010 at 16:34

Thanks for input. I've been reading alot of posts. Some of them are about the Tiger P/L.
I found out a little mopre about the P/L Encana may possiblly lay down the side of my land.
Could be as big as a 24" trunkline. Should I get more money if P/L is a 24".
They would want a 50' permanent and 25' working area ROW.
He said if they spend the money to survey then that is probably the route they will take and they have been surveying on my land so that is a good thing.
The man I spoke to led me to believe that if they can't get people to accept reasonable offers( if some land owners act like greedy idiots - These were not Mustang's/Encanas words- they are Jack Blake's words) then they may route the P/L a different way.
The Mustang Engineering man never mentioned eminent domain. I think they'll make good offers to get their deal done ad quickly as possible.
This stuff I've been reading about eminent domain seems like crap. My land is pasture worth no more than about 2k per acre tops. But fair market value of a 50' ROW down one complete side of my land that has a parish maintained dirt road is more than 2k per acre because it would take road frontage away from me.
Once I see an offer I'll use a PL ROW attorney to review offer and pay the attorney by the hour. I read of a ROW Attorney named Randall Davidson in Shreveport here on GHS and liked what I read so I'll be making initial contact to him on his rates and expectations of what compensation I should expect based on other ROW stuff he's done.
Hey, If anyone else on here is involved on this trunkline ROW crossing your land let's talk and share info. to get the best possible fair deal. See the original post on this thread for the info on where this land is and what companies are involved. That should give you an idea if we are talking tro the same Mustang Engineering personnel. Don't wonder where Jack Blake has land. Jack Blake is my alias. I don't want to post my real name on GHS. Jack Blake is uncer cover and incognito. Call me Jack Blake or Agent 87.
Long live the HS cried Jack Blake!!!!!

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Permalink Reply by Pelican on January 12, 2010 at 17:40

Eminent domain only applies to interstate pipelines. The ones EnCana/Shell/CenterPoint Energy Field Services are building are gathering lines only. They are not classified as interstate pipelines.

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Permalink Reply by PIPELINE OPERATOR on January 12, 2010 at 17:00

MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AS A LONGTIME EMPLOYEE OF A MAJOR INTERSTATE PIPELINE SYSTEM ! WRITE DOWN WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO YOU!! --MAKE SURE IT IS IN LEASE BEFORE YOU SIGN !! --EXAMPLES --: : ; DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING SPECIAL, LIKE TREES ALONG "EDGE" OF PROPOSED ROUTE , YOU WOULD LIKE TO SAVE ? --- DO YOU CARE IF "ABOVE GROUND" SALT WATER TANKS ,SCRUBBER VESSELS,TRUCK TERMINALS ARE BUILT ALONG PIPELINE R/W ??--( IF YOU DO NOT WANT ANYTHING ABOVE GROUND, THEN LEASE "MUST SAY " NO ABOVE GROUND STRUCTURES !! )--DO YOU CARE IF MORE PIPELINES COME YEARS LATER AT NO COST OR HALF PRICE ?? --, THEN IT MUST BE ON LEASE !!!! -- DO YOU CARE IF PIPELINE IS SOLD AND USED FOR OTHER PURPOSES , SUCH AS HAZARDOUS WASTE,FIBER OPTIC CABLE ROUTE ( WITHOUT COMPENSATION ! ) TO FORBID SUCH THINGS,MUST BE IN WRITING ON THE LEASE ! -----LOOK INTO THE FUTURE LIKE THE PIPELINE LEASING PERSON ---IS YOUR PROPERTY NEAR EXISTING ROAD ?? ANY HIGH GROUND ?? THEN IT MIGHT BE EXCELLENT SPOT FOR THE MAIN VALVES, PIG LAUNCHERS, WASTE TRAPS. (ALL ABOVE GROUND IN YOUR FRONT YARD )
FOR 95 % OF YOU, THE LAND WILL BE BETTER AFTER PIPELINE IS BUILT AND THE GRASS OF YOUR CHOICE ,(IF WRITTEN IN LEASE )IS PLANTED !! FOR THOSE WHO SIGN THE STANDARD LEASE WITHOUT CHANGES ,MAY THE LORD HELP THEM !!! FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY AGREE TO ! ---LAWYERS WILL BE OF LITTLE HELP , THEY JUST GET YOU A LITTLE MORE MONEY , THEN TELL YOU TO HAND IT OVER !!
YOU CAN HOLD OUT FOR 20 OR 30 FT PERMANENT WIDTH IF YOUR PROPERTY IS ADVERSELY AFFECTED! THE TEMPORARY 25 FT WORKING SPACE IS NEEDED IN PASTURE (75 FT TOTAL) TO DIG DITCH , TOP SOIL ON ONE SIDE BOTTOM SOIL ON OPPOSITE SIDE TEMPORARY HAUL ROAD AND PARKING OFF THE ROAD FOR EQUIPMENT ( THAT'S ABOUT 75 FT ) ---- AVERAGE PRICE IS $400.00 ROD ( 16.5 FT I THINK )
HOPE THIS HELPS SOME OF YOU PROTECT YOUR PROPERTY FROM THINGS YOU HAD NOT CONSIDERED .
I AM PROPERTY OWNER ALSO , I HAVE CAUSED SADNESS AND HARDSHIP TO MANY LANDOWNERS WITH A COPY OF " THE STANDARD LEASE " AND THE LAW AT MY SIDE !!!!!! OPERATOR

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Permalink Reply by Shaleeee on January 12, 2010 at 18:04

Thank you so much for this valuable information - please share any more info you think we need to know.

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Permalink Reply by Bobi Carr ("parker") on January 13, 2010 at 20:09

Permalink Reply by Eric Camp on October 16, 2008 at 8:49am
My answer is based on practicing law in Texas but I don't think there are too many difference in Louisiana law on this issue. If Louisiana is different on an issue, someone please correct me.

We price our ROW's based on linear feet, not rods but the conversion is easy (1 rod = 16.5 linear feet). $125 a rod = $7.58 a linear foot. This seems very low. Based on my experience and depending on the location/value/use of the property, you could demand up to $25 a linear foot or $412.50 a rod. And that isn't even talking about your timber. You should be compensated for the present and future value of whatever timber they are going to remove.

Other than the price for rod, you are right to assume there are a lot more issues to negotiate. Here's a list of things you should try to get in the ROW:

1) No surface equipment allowed (or limit the equipment, by name, if they have to put something there);
2) Pipeline should be buried at least 42 inches under the ground.
3) There should actually be 2 ROW's in your agreement - 1 temporary (50ft) that expires once the pipe is laid and 1 permanent of 30 feet.
4) Limit the substances that can be transported through the pipeline;
5) ROW should be for a single pipeline;
6) Landowner is allowed to use the surface over the pipeline for anything that does not interfere with the pipeline;
7) Company is responsible for maintaining the ROW;
8) Company has to pay to restore the property, not just return the soil. Require double-ditching so that the topsoil get back to the top. Require them to keep replanting until the grass has permanently returned;
9) Company is only entitled to access the ROW, not any other part of the property;
10) Company is strictly liable for any damages caused by itself, its contractors, and sub-contractors;
11) Place restrictions on the contractors activities (no guns, hunting, fishing, trash, pictures, etc.)
12) Restict all company activity outside the ROW area;
13) Company is strictly liable for environmental damages and indemnifies landowner;
14) All types of roads can go across the ROW without company's permission;
15) Company cannot grant ROW's inside the ROW area;
16) Company can make no more uses of the property than those expressly granted;
17) Inspections can only occur during normal business hours with proir notice to the landowner;
18) Landowner has a right to recover damages for disruption due to maintenance, repair4, replacement, and other activities in the ROW area in the future;
19) ROW reverts back to landowner after abandonment and abandonment occurs after 2 years of non-use;
20) Landowner has the right but not the obligation to force the company, at the company's sole expense, to remove its structures in the event of abandonment;
21) Warning signs must be placed in one place;
22) Include a Secrecy Agreement so that you can demand better terms;
23) Include drawings;
24) Landowner does not warrant title;
25) Landowner has the right to move the pipeline at its expense;
26) The proper description of ROW (not just the legal description of the property);
27) Written, short timetable for construction;
28) Limit the company's routes of ingress and egress;
29) Require that all roads used by the company will be repaired to their former condition or improved when the construction is finished;
30) Limit the maximum pressure the line can transmit to as little as possible;
31) Require additional payments to landowner if the original line or any subsequent line is replaced;
32) Make company liable for the payment of all survey, filing, and attorney fees incurred incidental to the condemnation; and
33) For income tax purposes, apportion the payments for the acquisition of the actual easement and for damages.

Bottom line, at least in Texas, is that if you don't come to an agreement on a ROW, the company can use the power of eminent domain and condemn your land. They want to avoid this because it is expensive. And you want to avoid it too because of the expense and likelihood of a lesser payment than you could have received through negotiations and lack of the terms I mentioned above.

Also, prior to signing a lease, strike out the language that allows the lessee to lay pipelines across you land. If they have that right by lease, they don't have to get another ROW Agreement (and pay you again).

Hope this helps.

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Permalink Reply by Jack Blake on January 15, 2010 at 17:32

Jack appreciates all the info. from everyone. Parker, In your list of items you said to include a secrecy agreement so I can demand better terms. Can you elaborate on this?
Thanks,
Jack Blake

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Permalink Reply by Bobi Carr ("parker") on January 15, 2010 at 17:39

Jack,

Actually, this is Eric Camp's list. He is an attorney in Texas and a site member.

If I were in Texas, I would use him.

I live in Louisiana so I use Randal Davidson.

As informed as I try to be, I would not sign a pipeline agreement that he has not reviewed. I have been pleased with everyone in his office. They are extemely professional.

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Permalink Reply by Bobi Carr ("parker") on January 15, 2010 at 17:48

Jack,

I just recently saw a pad agreement put on file in my area. I was going to call them and find out what they were paid, but I noticed that the document referenced a non-disclosure clause. I wouldn't think about asking now.

I think the companies want to keep the payments as private as possible.

It is human nature to want to "one up" what the last person got. So the more information that gets out, the more the costs escalate.

Also two properties closely situated are not necessarily the same value. If I lived a block away from Wal-Mart that doesn't mean that I can sell my land for the same price they can get for one of their out-parcels.

The bottom line though (as in any transaction) is do they want to pay what you are asking for the property.

I once paid MORE than the asking price for a piece of property, but I REALLY wanted it.

How bad do they REALLY want it and how bad to you want to sell it to them instead of them buying your neighbor’s property?

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Permalink Reply by Jack Blake on January 15, 2010 at 17:49

Good to hear that. I have heard of Randal Davidson on this site and I plan to make contact with him when I do get to the point of having a Lawyer review my ROW agreement (assuming I get one, but since they are surveying I feel pretty confident I will get one).
I called and spoke with an assistant of his last week.
I feel like I did pretty good with my mineral lease (striking lines from the standard lease and adding a couple pages of addendum) but I could have done better.
I plan to do an even better job with this upcoming ROW agreement and negotiation.
Once again, I appreciate the input greatly!
Long live the HS and power to the landowners cried Jack Blake!!!!!

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Permalink Reply by Bobi Carr ("parker") on January 15, 2010 at 17:53

Let us all know how it turns out.

GOOD LUCK!

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