Selling water from a pond for fracing a well-anyone know the pitfalls? - GoHaynesvilleShale.com2024-03-28T22:45:41Zhttps://gohaynesvilleshale.com/forum/topics/selling-water-from-a-pond-for?commentId=2117179%3AComment%3A1075529&feed=yes&xn_auth=noNot related to gas wells or f…tag:gohaynesvilleshale.com,2010-10-11:2117179:Comment:15995562010-10-11T05:03:10.348Zslowrollin1970https://gohaynesvilleshale.com/profile/slowrollin1970
Not related to gas wells or frac water for a well..... The papermill in Mansfield and the papermill in Campti, la each consume right at 10 million gallons per day. When compared it really isnt that much water anymore, now is it?
Not related to gas wells or frac water for a well..... The papermill in Mansfield and the papermill in Campti, la each consume right at 10 million gallons per day. When compared it really isnt that much water anymore, now is it? Why does "Texas Water Code 19…tag:gohaynesvilleshale.com,2010-10-08:2117179:Comment:15969962010-10-08T21:11:24.576ZH1https://gohaynesvilleshale.com/profile/H1
Why does "Texas Water Code 1988, Sect. 11.142" not apply to diffused water (run off into a pond)?<br/>
It states:<br/>
"There is an important limitation on the use of stored diffused surface water. Since 1953, it may be used ONLY for domestic and livestock purposes, and a permit from the Texas Water Commission is required if the reservoir exceeds the storage limits, if the dam is on a stream, OR if the water is to be put to other uses (Templer 1976)."
Why does "Texas Water Code 1988, Sect. 11.142" not apply to diffused water (run off into a pond)?<br/>
It states:<br/>
"There is an important limitation on the use of stored diffused surface water. Since 1953, it may be used ONLY for domestic and livestock purposes, and a permit from the Texas Water Commission is required if the reservoir exceeds the storage limits, if the dam is on a stream, OR if the water is to be put to other uses (Templer 1976)." www.shalebiz.com is a new mar…tag:gohaynesvilleshale.com,2010-10-08:2117179:Comment:15964382010-10-08T14:24:37.357ZAnna Mauck-Member Serviceshttps://gohaynesvilleshale.com/profile/Louisianagirl
<a href="http://www.shalebiz.com" target="_blank">www.shalebiz.com</a> is a new marketplace site folks can list their available pond water for sale for companies to contact you.
<a href="http://www.shalebiz.com" target="_blank">www.shalebiz.com</a> is a new marketplace site folks can list their available pond water for sale for companies to contact you. Just to let you know I know s…tag:gohaynesvilleshale.com,2010-10-08:2117179:Comment:15957152010-10-08T01:44:35.311ZSamhttps://gohaynesvilleshale.com/profile/Sari
Just to let you know I know someone selling water from their pond for .50 a barrel in the Haynesville Shale and have a provision that the pond cannot get below a certain level. Don't let Chk. or other drilling co. get to you without checking things out!
Just to let you know I know someone selling water from their pond for .50 a barrel in the Haynesville Shale and have a provision that the pond cannot get below a certain level. Don't let Chk. or other drilling co. get to you without checking things out! Here is an interesting read o…tag:gohaynesvilleshale.com,2010-10-07:2117179:Comment:15955042010-10-07T23:20:02.791ZH1https://gohaynesvilleshale.com/profile/H1
Here is an interesting read on Texas law. don't know if it is accurate. Diffused water law is included, here is the exerp and the link. I dont' have a clue, just researching the idea. It LOOKS like people need to be careful in selling the water in a pond without SOMEONE getting a permit. Notice that last sentence. THIS POST IS NOT A LEGAL OPINION<br />
<br />
A Texas statute (Texas Water Code 1988, Sect. 11.142)<br />
There is an important limitation on<br />
the use of stored diffused surface water. Since 1953, it…
Here is an interesting read on Texas law. don't know if it is accurate. Diffused water law is included, here is the exerp and the link. I dont' have a clue, just researching the idea. It LOOKS like people need to be careful in selling the water in a pond without SOMEONE getting a permit. Notice that last sentence. THIS POST IS NOT A LEGAL OPINION<br />
<br />
A Texas statute (Texas Water Code 1988, Sect. 11.142)<br />
There is an important limitation on<br />
the use of stored diffused surface water. Since 1953, it may be used only for<br />
domestic and livestock purposes, and a permit from the Texas Water Commission<br />
is required ifthe reservoir exceeds the storage limits, if the dam is on<br />
a stream, or if the water is to be put to other uses (Templer 1976).<br />
<br />
<a href="http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1049&context=greatplainsresearch" target="_blank">http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1049&context=greatplainsresearch</a><br />
<br />
Someone with a bigger brain than mine should research this. Phillip,
If your 200+acre fe…tag:gohaynesvilleshale.com,2010-10-07:2117179:Comment:15953632010-10-07T22:50:47.974Zdbobhttps://gohaynesvilleshale.com/profile/dbob
Phillip,<br />
<br />
If your 200+acre feet is off-channel in Texas it is exempt. My guess is that to impound 200+ acre feet you probably have a watershed of 800 acres. My second guess is that it is on channel. If it is on a flowing/intermitent/perennial stream, you probably need a water rights permit simply to impound it.<br />
<br />
If it is on a flowing/intermittent/perennial stream and you want to benefit from fracturing use of the water, you or the person using the water needs a permit in Texas.<br />
<br />
I'm also…
Phillip,<br />
<br />
If your 200+acre feet is off-channel in Texas it is exempt. My guess is that to impound 200+ acre feet you probably have a watershed of 800 acres. My second guess is that it is on channel. If it is on a flowing/intermitent/perennial stream, you probably need a water rights permit simply to impound it.<br />
<br />
If it is on a flowing/intermittent/perennial stream and you want to benefit from fracturing use of the water, you or the person using the water needs a permit in Texas.<br />
<br />
I'm also guessing you are subject to dam safety regulations:<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.tceq.state.tx.us/compliance/field_ops/dam_safety/damsafetyprog.html" target="_blank">http://www.tceq.state.tx.us/compliance/field_ops/dam_safety/damsafetyprog.html</a><br />
<br />
I can suggest a couple of good water lawyers if you want legal clarity on your situation. That's news to me. Western st…tag:gohaynesvilleshale.com,2010-10-07:2117179:Comment:15946992010-10-07T17:53:59.857ZPhillip Briggshttps://gohaynesvilleshale.com/profile/PhillipBriggs
That's news to me. Western states... yeah, this is true. Non-navigable waters (private ponds and lakes) waters belong to the landowners... to do with as they wish. Even groundwater belongs to the surface owner... to do with as they wish.<br />
<br />
Some counties are starting freshwater districts, to protect local landowners against corporate water resource mining, for bottled water. If your not in a "district", Nestle or any other bottled water group can come in and deplete an aquifer, and it's tough…
That's news to me. Western states... yeah, this is true. Non-navigable waters (private ponds and lakes) waters belong to the landowners... to do with as they wish. Even groundwater belongs to the surface owner... to do with as they wish.<br />
<br />
Some counties are starting freshwater districts, to protect local landowners against corporate water resource mining, for bottled water. If your not in a "district", Nestle or any other bottled water group can come in and deplete an aquifer, and it's tough noogies for surrounding well owners... In a "district" and they've got a lot of legal hoops to jump through, with legal consequences.<br />
<br />
I've got a private lake, with over 200 acre feet of water... I can sell it to anyone I want... just wish someone 'wanted' some. :) good article on water rights…tag:gohaynesvilleshale.com,2010-10-05:2117179:Comment:15911412010-10-05T16:13:22.250ZThe_Baronhttps://gohaynesvilleshale.com/profile/The_Baron
good article on water rights in Texas<br />
<br />
<a href="http://texaswater.tamu.edu/waterlaw.texas.htm" target="_blank">http://texaswater.tamu.edu/waterlaw.texas.htm</a>
good article on water rights in Texas<br />
<br />
<a href="http://texaswater.tamu.edu/waterlaw.texas.htm" target="_blank">http://texaswater.tamu.edu/waterlaw.texas.htm</a> King John
Correct, if its ju…tag:gohaynesvilleshale.com,2010-10-05:2117179:Comment:15908722010-10-05T13:17:04.983Zdbobhttps://gohaynesvilleshale.com/profile/dbob
King John<br />
<br />
Correct, if its just catching run-off and isn't on a flowing stream, you are free and clear to sell the water. Building berms, etc to catch more water shouldn't require a permit from TCEQ, as long as its not on a flowing stream.<br />
<br />
1-yr or more is probably right for a larger permit (several fracs worth of water) although on a regional basis you can get authorization for smaller amounts of water essentially on a frac by frac basis.<br />
<br />
Enforcment by TCEQ on the water withdrawal issue is…
King John<br />
<br />
Correct, if its just catching run-off and isn't on a flowing stream, you are free and clear to sell the water. Building berms, etc to catch more water shouldn't require a permit from TCEQ, as long as its not on a flowing stream.<br />
<br />
1-yr or more is probably right for a larger permit (several fracs worth of water) although on a regional basis you can get authorization for smaller amounts of water essentially on a frac by frac basis.<br />
<br />
Enforcment by TCEQ on the water withdrawal issue is limited, but there were a couple of complaints recently to TCEQ about Polysot Creek just outside of Cherino. It will be interesting to see how those proceed. dbob, i certainly do apprecia…tag:gohaynesvilleshale.com,2010-10-05:2117179:Comment:15908372010-10-05T12:56:45.023Zking johnhttps://gohaynesvilleshale.com/profile/kingjohn
dbob, i certainly do appreciate your comments. i got as far as talking to an environmental engineer a couple of times about permitting the construction of a pond. it is a completely different set of rules for companies than it is for individuals. i was amazed to find out in a commercial scenario, this permitting process can take a year or more. talk about needing to plan ahead...<br />
if a person has an existing pond fed by natural run off, (tx. rules of capture), wouldn't that person be free and…
dbob, i certainly do appreciate your comments. i got as far as talking to an environmental engineer a couple of times about permitting the construction of a pond. it is a completely different set of rules for companies than it is for individuals. i was amazed to find out in a commercial scenario, this permitting process can take a year or more. talk about needing to plan ahead...<br />
if a person has an existing pond fed by natural run off, (tx. rules of capture), wouldn't that person be free and clear to market the water? as far as that goes, couldn't a land owner build berms to redirect the water and still be within his legal limits?<br />
i would encourage anyone interested in selling water to pursue it. whether or not your water qualifies as a source for their needs can easily be determined by them. it doesn't cost anything to ask, and all they can say is no, and give you a reason why your water doesn't qualify as a source for them.<br />
kj