Will the corporations who stand to benefit from LNG, take control in the Haynesville to limit or curtail development in the Haynesville? - GoHaynesvilleShale.com2024-03-29T13:41:35Zhttps://gohaynesvilleshale.com/forum/topics/will-the-corporations-who?commentId=2117179%3AComment%3A755443&feed=yes&xn_auth=noWell, if any LNG tankers try…tag:gohaynesvilleshale.com,2009-07-02:2117179:Comment:7578642009-07-02T17:58:56.584ZMac Davishttps://gohaynesvilleshale.com/profile/MacDavis
Well, if any LNG tankers try to sail into the Keithville area, I'm shooten first and asken questions later.
Well, if any LNG tankers try to sail into the Keithville area, I'm shooten first and asken questions later. Mac, the bottom line - it is…tag:gohaynesvilleshale.com,2009-07-02:2117179:Comment:7569862009-07-02T01:53:29.835ZLes Bamburghttps://gohaynesvilleshale.com/profile/LesB
Mac, the bottom line - it is just not that easy to rupture or pierce into the actual LNG cargo container for the tanker because it is double-hulled plus has a lot of insulation space. Some heavy duty technical studies (Sandia Institute) concluded it would some type of rocket launcher to actual pierce a hole into the cargo. There would be no explosion but rather a small hole. Hence my slow leakage example.<br />
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Terrorists are far more likely to go after a crude oil, gasoline or LPG tanker or maybe a…
Mac, the bottom line - it is just not that easy to rupture or pierce into the actual LNG cargo container for the tanker because it is double-hulled plus has a lot of insulation space. Some heavy duty technical studies (Sandia Institute) concluded it would some type of rocket launcher to actual pierce a hole into the cargo. There would be no explosion but rather a small hole. Hence my slow leakage example.<br />
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Terrorists are far more likely to go after a crude oil, gasoline or LPG tanker or maybe a ship carrying fertilizer. Check Texas City disaster. Anyone with questions about L…tag:gohaynesvilleshale.com,2009-07-02:2117179:Comment:7569072009-07-02T00:50:52.663ZMartinhttps://gohaynesvilleshale.com/profile/jcmagness
Anyone with questions about LNG and potential for explosions can find a couple of interesting comments at the website sesport posted. First the LNG would have to be returned to a gaseous state. It is stored at -260 or so degrees F. To predict what a large quantity (as in tons and tons) of LNG would do if say, dumped into 85 degree saltwater may be impossible without performing a couple of experiments. It is a physical chemistry problem that boggles the mind. At sesport's site there is mention…
Anyone with questions about LNG and potential for explosions can find a couple of interesting comments at the website sesport posted. First the LNG would have to be returned to a gaseous state. It is stored at -260 or so degrees F. To predict what a large quantity (as in tons and tons) of LNG would do if say, dumped into 85 degree saltwater may be impossible without performing a couple of experiments. It is a physical chemistry problem that boggles the mind. At sesport's site there is mention of a non combustion explosion resulting if LNG is spilled on land. I would guess this would be the result of the rapid phase change of the LNG expanding 600 times it volume when it converts to a gaseous state. Les - I think they were looki…tag:gohaynesvilleshale.com,2009-07-02:2117179:Comment:7568912009-07-02T00:34:10.992Zsesporthttps://gohaynesvilleshale.com/profile/sesportperson
Les - I think they were looking for a credit card to pay for those wings, they brought the library card, so I took advantage. Guilty as charged. <s>Won't</s> <s>May not</s> Highly unlikely (about 80%) it won't happen again.<br />
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And the same goes for this hijack! :0)
Les - I think they were looking for a credit card to pay for those wings, they brought the library card, so I took advantage. Guilty as charged. <s>Won't</s> <s>May not</s> Highly unlikely (about 80%) it won't happen again.<br />
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And the same goes for this hijack! :0) Valid points, but -
LNG tank…tag:gohaynesvilleshale.com,2009-07-01:2117179:Comment:7567752009-07-01T22:59:15.159ZMac Davishttps://gohaynesvilleshale.com/profile/MacDavis
Valid points, but -<br />
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LNG tankers move and can hit rocks or other ships get caught in hurricanes, etc., so there's some risks that aren't present in a pipeline.<br />
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I'm not entirely convinced about the "lighter than air" argument. Yes, lighter than air is a good thing, but Nitrogen is 13% lighter than oxygen, but we don't end up with pure oxygen at the surface, and nitrogen aloft. Even though the methane will tend to dissipate upwards rather than run along the ground, won't some of it still be near…
Valid points, but -<br />
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LNG tankers move and can hit rocks or other ships get caught in hurricanes, etc., so there's some risks that aren't present in a pipeline.<br />
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I'm not entirely convinced about the "lighter than air" argument. Yes, lighter than air is a good thing, but Nitrogen is 13% lighter than oxygen, but we don't end up with pure oxygen at the surface, and nitrogen aloft. Even though the methane will tend to dissipate upwards rather than run along the ground, won't some of it still be near the ground? Especially if the methane is coming from cryogenic liquid methane and is colder than air.<br />
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Spillage may be slow if there's a small leak, but not for a major rupture of the vessel. Also, there's a lot more methane in a given volume of LNG than for a given volume of gas from a pipeline. What happens if an LNG tanker sinks or rolls over and ruptures the tanks, and water gets in, boiling off some of the LNG, creating more pressure, squirting out quantities of liquid LNG into the water, where it will flash boil?<br />
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Remote area is nice, but they could be off-course due to storm or terrorism. I wonder if we have the gumption to sink an LNG tanker if it starts heading for a populated area by accident or unknown reasons. Suppose terrorists take over, and then claim that they're having mechanical trouble or simply don't respond. Do the LNG tankers pass close enough to get to a populated area before we'd decide to sink it?<br />
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Somalia shows us it's not that difficult to hijack a mega tanker.<br />
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I'm not really that concerned about LNG tankers. (Hey, I live 200 miles away from the ocean.) However, I have my doubts about some of the reassurances. Mac, please just consider som…tag:gohaynesvilleshale.com,2009-07-01:2117179:Comment:7567122009-07-01T22:21:26.826ZLes Bamburghttps://gohaynesvilleshale.com/profile/LesB
Mac, please just consider some of these mitigating factors:<br />
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- LNG tankers are not under pressure, so release rate is not the same as a pipeline rupture.<br />
- LNG is a liquid so any spillage rate is slow and as vapors form they dissipate quickly.<br />
- LNG tankers have double wall construction which is more protective than pipeline's construction.<br />
- Methane is lighter than air as opposed to LPG which is heavier than air.<br />
- The leakage is not in a confined space such as a house.<br />
- Most LNG receiving…
Mac, please just consider some of these mitigating factors:<br />
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- LNG tankers are not under pressure, so release rate is not the same as a pipeline rupture.<br />
- LNG is a liquid so any spillage rate is slow and as vapors form they dissipate quickly.<br />
- LNG tankers have double wall construction which is more protective than pipeline's construction.<br />
- Methane is lighter than air as opposed to LPG which is heavier than air.<br />
- The leakage is not in a confined space such as a house.<br />
- Most LNG receiving terminals in the US are in remote areas away from population centers.<br />
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The industry recognizes the hazards which is the reason for rigorous safety standards for the design and operation of tankers and receiving terminals. That sounds a little disingen…tag:gohaynesvilleshale.com,2009-07-01:2117179:Comment:7566512009-07-01T21:53:18.902ZMac Davishttps://gohaynesvilleshale.com/profile/MacDavis
That sounds a little disingenuous.<br />
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If you rupture a large LNG tank and the natgas spreads out, isn't it a still big hazard? After all, we get rather concerned when there's a large natural gas leak. Houses do explode from natgas leaks.<br />
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Wouldn't we be rather concerned if a natgas pipeline leaked a LNG tanker's worth of natgas?<br />
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I'm not saying that an LNG tanker is an atomic bomb waiting to go off, but the idea that they're not an explosion hazard seems to be a little bit of creative ignorance…
That sounds a little disingenuous.<br />
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If you rupture a large LNG tank and the natgas spreads out, isn't it a still big hazard? After all, we get rather concerned when there's a large natural gas leak. Houses do explode from natgas leaks.<br />
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Wouldn't we be rather concerned if a natgas pipeline leaked a LNG tanker's worth of natgas?<br />
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I'm not saying that an LNG tanker is an atomic bomb waiting to go off, but the idea that they're not an explosion hazard seems to be a little bit of creative ignorance on the part of the industry.<br />
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The other question I would have would be deliberate use of an LNG tanker as a weapon. Use it like a fuel-air bomb. Use an explosive to scatter the LNG, then strike a spark. Sesport, is that what those S…tag:gohaynesvilleshale.com,2009-07-01:2117179:Comment:7565292009-07-01T21:06:06.697ZLes Bamburghttps://gohaynesvilleshale.com/profile/LesB
Sesport, is that what those Somalia pirates were doing in my office?
Sesport, is that what those Somalia pirates were doing in my office? Jay, just to re-iterate your…tag:gohaynesvilleshale.com,2009-07-01:2117179:Comment:7565262009-07-01T21:04:28.278ZLes Bamburghttps://gohaynesvilleshale.com/profile/LesB
Jay, just to re-iterate your correction above. The explosion did not involve LNG. By the way, LNG tankers have have very little risk of explosion. Just one of those myths created by opponents.<br />
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<a href="http://www.lngfacts.org/Media-Center/063009_italian_train_explosion.asp">http://www.lngfacts.org/Media-Center/063009_italian_train_explosion...</a>
Jay, just to re-iterate your correction above. The explosion did not involve LNG. By the way, LNG tankers have have very little risk of explosion. Just one of those myths created by opponents.<br />
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<a href="http://www.lngfacts.org/Media-Center/063009_italian_train_explosion.asp">http://www.lngfacts.org/Media-Center/063009_italian_train_explosion...</a> Martin - I have to be honest…tag:gohaynesvilleshale.com,2009-07-01:2117179:Comment:7555162009-07-01T16:46:11.666Zsesporthttps://gohaynesvilleshale.com/profile/sesportperson
Martin - I have to be honest here ... Les B. didn't actually "lend" me his card, I kinda "borrowed" it ... all right "hijacked" it. Geez, I put it back before he even noticed, not like I was going to keep it.<br />
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(Okay, I'll quit now.) :0)
Martin - I have to be honest here ... Les B. didn't actually "lend" me his card, I kinda "borrowed" it ... all right "hijacked" it. Geez, I put it back before he even noticed, not like I was going to keep it.<br />
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(Okay, I'll quit now.) :0)