drill now, pay later?

My father-in-law, who died many years ago, owned some mineral rights in LaSalle County near Gardendale.  A land man contacted us out of nowhere yesterday and offered $1,000/acre on the  mineral rights on A 1037.  We do not own the land and did not know he owned any rights there until yesterday.  We looked it up on the RR website and found that this lot is included in the pool for well 283-33393, which was permitted 7/17/12.  Can an oil company just start a well, then ask you if it okay months later and negotiate bonuses when they get around to it?  Has this happened to anyone else?  How can I find out how far along this is?  Thank you!

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Permalink Reply by gummipuppe on October 18, 2012 at 17:53

Nothing is further from the truth.  The deceased is being pooled as we speak and is listed as a mineral rights owner on the permit pulled in July.  They found him!  He has two sons / heirs.  There is a will at the court house with two heirs.  There are no spotty records.  My husband is from Cotulla and we made sure all was in order when we were pooled on other lands. 

Permalink Reply by GoshDarn on October 18, 2012 at 18:37

gummipuppe:

I fully understand why you're seeking advice from fellow landowners, and I think you're wise to do so (if you can get worthwhile feedback to fit your particular situation/circumstances).

Note:  If I could offer "valid" advice, I would.  Yet since your holdings are in TX, I'm not as knowledgeable in the governance of those Texas laws and concerns as I would be in Louisiana.

Also, over the years (on GHS) I've found that jffree1's insight and advice to other members, in regards to such Texas issues, to be quite well meaning and helpful, IMHO.

Also, it's my opinion that Ben Elmore is a solid legal resource who seems (to me) to be quite honest and helpful when it comes to favoring TX landowners.   So, for what it's worth, that's my opinion as a La. landowner (who has also owned land in TX and who has family who still owns minerals and leases and lands in TX).

Finally, I'll go out on a limb and try to offer you a generalization as to what could be happening with your family's mineral estate.  Yet since my skill set is truly based upon my years of mineral management and lease dealings in La. (since I sold my TX land years ago and didn't do very much to manage minerals under those laws) . . . my advice might not be that accurate.  Yet since you appear to prefer landowner feedback, I'll simply offer my rough opinion (with a huge caveat as to its accuracy).  So don't trust my feedback for due diligence as to an important fiscal decision.

Now, as I understand it (and I could be wrong) -- an operator (i.e., an O&G company) can drill tracts/units in TX and not have all the landowners under lease at the time that the well/s are spudded (I think).  Indeed, I know this is true in La. (for sure).

And the pooling can happen in La. without the landowner's consent, too.  So, seems to me, it could also happen in TX.

Yet that's not to say you won't get your royalties for the production.  You eventually "probably" will, but it will be a case of whether you do so by "eventually" signing a post facto lease with the operator/s in question or by holding out until the well/s hit a profit and then you'll get a share of the production O&G income minus the well's expenses (is a rough wording) as a UMI (i.e., as a un-leased mineral interest; also known as a UMO).

Again, I'm on thin ice here and could be wrong per it being TX.  

Yet I'm 99.9% certain jffree1 would know the particulars, as would Ben Elmore.  And if it was me in your shoes, gummipuppe -- I'd trust both of those individuals.

Note:  On the shenanigans of a relative (or whomever) possibly running a scam to cheat family on title or minerals -- well, again, if it was me, I'd want to nail that down ASAP as to what the evidence is and as to the truth.  Yep, y'know, seeking intel from as many relatives as possible and also from anyone else involved (including an operator) would be a top priority (if it involved my family) -- yet I also wouldn't rush willy-nilly until you really do have some definitive solid "confirmed" evidence.  It's sorta separate issue (in a way) . . . since I'm sensing, in regards to what you do know, that that if there was a crook at work, then the person wasn't able to completely get away with grand theft (although there still might have been some theft).  

Lastly, I support your desire to seek "free" advice on GHS.  Good for you.

That said, I also support the well-meaning insider pros who are willing to share their knowledge freely when they can on GHS.  And like you well know, gummiuppe, no one is forcing them to log on and try to help those seeking answers.  They do so at their own volition (for a number of reasons).

So, I mean, no one is making 'em post the info.

Also, don't worry about supporting Keith unless you feel the need in your heart.  Methinks Keith is quite able to run GHS without someone like you, who rarely ever posts . . . having to make a donation, whereas the long-term regulars who do quite frequently use GHS should be the ones to offer donations, IMHO. 

Good luck.  Hope you get it all sorted out.

Take care.

GD

Permalink Reply by gummipuppe on October 18, 2012 at 19:01

GD, you are God sent.  Thank you.  Everything you said is most likely true to one extent or the other and I will deal with  jffree1, and Ben.  There is another "prize" here on this forum.  That is Mark P.  It is very difficult for us because we live in California after we retired and he has been a great help. One can tell you enjoy this and so do they.   

Thank you and have a good night.  Hope to meet again.  Would like to be your friend.

Permalink Reply by Dion Warr, CPL on October 18, 2012 at 20:19
Did you list these mineral interests as being part of the decedent's inventory (that you state elsewhere that you didn't know that he had? No? Voila - spotty records or inventory.

You "had the records searched" and didn't find this interest either, but you hold the O&G company accountable because they found your father-in-law's interest but did not connect all the dots? Really?
Permalink Reply by Dion Warr, CPL on October 18, 2012 at 6:16

Gummipuppe:

 

First of all, I am a landman.  I predominantly work in LA - I would suggest that in situations that you suspect shenanigans which may impact your interest, you  should contact an attorney licensed to practice in TX which has a knowledge of mineral law, if not specializing in that area of practice.  Preferably, you should retain one that deals with landowner and mineral owner issues and disputes.  I would even more strongly recommend retaining an attorney if you or your extended family have fee and mineral interests in multiple parcels.  It would certainly behoove you if these situations continue to up to be an "existing client" rather than a "new client".

 

As to this forum: there are limitations to what you can expect in a forum such as this.  One is that you should only expect marginal legal advice at best (if legal advice at all), and sometimes ill-informed advice at worst.  Literally anyone who is a member can comment here.  Some contributors are better than others; some are better known than others. All comments, however well intentioned, can be rendered inaccurate or moot based upon the facts and the situation presented.  This is irrespective of pro-industry or pro-landowner bias.  The omission or misstatement of what could be key information or details could drastically change an opinion or interpretation.  Unfortunately, as this is a public forum, there is a tendency for landowners and mineral owners to instinctively and protectively withhold information that they would consider private, inconsequential to the situation as they see it, or details which may betray their identity or location of either themselves or their interests such that another party may seek to exploit or benefit.  However it is sometimes that very specific information or knowledge that is vital to properly interpreting the situation.

 

Not speaking for Skip, but from some of my own experience (both here and offsite): as an industry person, there have been times that I have been sought out or tried to assist certain people with situations that turn out to be fairly involved or complex to provide any resolution without actually taking it on "as a job" (ie. compensation), because that is what it would take to resolve the issue, even if I would have to refer that person to someone else to finish the task (e.g., a lawyer).  At a certain point, that subject has to be broached.  Some people are understanding of this.  Others become irritated or suspicious upon the notion that I would now want to be compensated for what I do.  Still others simply take the knowledge that I have dispensed gratis and move on to the next professional willing to assist in order to move their personal football down the field without having to pay for professional advice, even though that may be what is required.  On occasion (thankfully less now than previously), some people have viewed my posts (and commented as such) as being industry-serving, pro-industry, or just postings of a "stinking lanmans". As a result, I have at times become prickly about folks who seem to ask for advice, and then attack the provider of same as either incompetent, uncaring, unrighteous or biased.

 

Bottom line: all of the facts in a given situation matter (or could matter).  In the event of a legal dispute, there is "what is right, what is wrong, and what is legal", and those things don't have to all line up to each other, they can all inhabit different houses in any given situation.  If you don't want to shoot the messenger, put your gun away and don't shoot him, even if you do feel moral outrage.  If he asks for some more information, be provided to give it so that a proper determination can be made.  If you don't trust what you're reading, stop reading and hire a professional to provide competent advice to you, for your specific situation, at your specific direction.  There is a lot of good stuff here, but it's no substitute for a law degree or a trained professional.

Permalink Reply by gummipuppe on October 18, 2012 at 6:24

Thank you for your reply.  I did not mean for everyone to have to come to the aid of landmen and various opinions. I know how this works.   I just wanted a simple answer to a simple question or two.  Thank you anyway. 

Permalink Reply by Dion Warr, CPL on October 18, 2012 at 11:43

Gummipuppe:

Thanks to jffree, you now have your answers, free of charge.

Also, thanks to you, we now understand what your view of this website is: " I just wanted to know how other lease holders handled this before I spent money." (Emphasis added).

Professionals who have contributed their own personal time and expertise to help others on this forum over the last four years have been faced with the reality of that which you have stated so plainly here.  That and the sometimes open hostility to anyone connected to the O&G business and accusations of industry bias have resulted in many professionals ceasing to contribute altogether, all to the apparent wonderment of the land and mineral owners seeking that time and expertise in the first place (before they spend money).

Try to keep this in mind when a professional extends you the courtesy of responding to your question.  What you say before, after and in between the words "thank you" in your responses can sometimes detract from your sentiment.

 

But why do I (or anyone else) need to tell you: you know how this works.

Permalink Reply by gummipuppe on October 18, 2012 at 17:13

to Dion Warr,

I did not ask for " professional advice".  If I wanted to, I could have afforded anyone here but I wanted to know what my rights are before I run around to lawyers or landmen.  There are plenty of nice people here who help each other, so maybe you are just lost.  I asked for advice from other lease holders or anyone who wanted to research this.  It is fun for some people.  I was not aware that this forum even had land men on it so get out of my face.   I have helped many here and in other areas. 

I owned an antique shop in Houston for 35 years.  If I had charged everyone every time they showed me trheir grandma's antiques, and asked for worth, I would be a millionaire.  Not everyone has to get paid every time they opent heir mouth. 

This does not concern you at all.  If Jeffree or anyone wants to charge me, it is up to the two of us.   You are right, the website has changed tremendously but then that was just a matter of time,, was it not?  i would appreciate it if you got off my page here.  Thank you

Permalink Reply by gummipuppe on October 18, 2012 at 17:21

Dion, Do I know you?  I don't think so.  You have no right to lecture me.  My existence does not depend on this forum my dear friend.  I did not ask for professional advice.  I asked for a path to do my own research which is something I have done here for years.  I have also hired an attorney from here, so since you know nothing about me or my business, and want to lecture someone, go talk to someone you know.  Stay out of my business and off this page..  Thank you

Permalink Reply by Dion Warr, CPL on October 18, 2012 at 19:18
Gummi:

I don't know you. I don't care how long you ran antiques. You don't have a page on this forum, you opened a discussion which is open to anyone's comment. A valued contributor (and someone I call friend) responded to your unqualified inquiry, and you took him to task for it, which is pretty rude, if you didn't learn that. I took up for him, you got uppity. Come to think of it, you're still being uppity to everyone who's not giving you a free answer or sympathizing with your plight. And you've just about insulted everyone here by telling professional contributors that "you can afford anyone here" and characterizing all the non- professionals as fun-loving volunteers eager and willing to do your research projects for you and share their knowledge for the love of doing it, so you don't have to spend your money learning about your rights from your already retained attorney.

No, I'm not lost. I am generally a courteous and helpful contributor on this forum who espouses treating other people the way I would want to be treated; the exception is when I see someone treat someone else with contempt for no other reason that they are an industry person (which obviously qualifies them as anti-landowner, a scoundrel, or both, but certainly no one you want to listen to), or demeans the value other people here as people you go to before you spend your money - when I meet people like that, I try to treat them like they show that they can treat others. (Thank you for the reply.)

I don't know much about you, but judging from your prior posts, it's not like this is the first property that you didn't know you had that someone else (a hardworking landman, no doubt) had to find for you, and this is not the first time you have consulted this forum for assistance and obtained valuable advice for your personal benefit. If you want to pay Julie, pay her; I'm pretty sure Ben bills for his time. Personally, your obliviousness as to landmen and lawyers being actively engaged in this forum is laughable, considering the amount of time that you purport to have been here, "helping other people". But if you value the other fun-loving volunteers around here, consider donating to this forum. Call it a "real thank you for all their replies". Call it "a donation to buy my silence". But consider it.

Actually, you'll find that you can easily afford a return of my good humor and courtesy. Apologize to my friend Skip here in this forum (he'll say it's not necessary, but you torched him here for everyone to read) and anyone else that you may have offended, and you'll have my apology, here. Perhaps I mistook you someone not big enough to accede to such a gesture, and I will acknowledge that mistake. I don't deserve such, as I did no more than respond to you in kind.
Permalink Reply by gummipuppe on October 18, 2012 at 19:29

Dion Warr,

It is gummipuppe to you.  I would like for you to stop harassing me.  I have been a member here for years.  I do have a page and have the right to ask questions whether they are free or not.  You are not forced to answer them.  I have nothing for sale.   I did not hire you.  I owe you nothing.  Go away.

Permalink Reply by essay on October 18, 2012 at 19:35

i can tell you're a people person.


know how i can tell?


you make friends everywhere you go.


some people are just gifted that way.

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