Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Mac Davis on November 16, 2009 at 10:48

This discussion is not about what happens to a well informed mineral interest owner.

I'm asking if there's any real downside for the landman to lie to the mineral interest owner. When he tries to defraud a mineral interest owner, is there a significant risk to him? Has anyone heard of a landman being punished for lying to mineral interest owner, for instance by telling them that UMO's pay a 300% penalty.

Many people here say that the landmen who say you have to pay 300% are ignorant. I'm wondering if the bad landmen know better and simply don't believe there's a significant downside to attempted fraud.

Once again, how often, if ever, do landmen suffer any significant penalty for this kind of fraud?

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Permalink Reply by Cheerleader on November 16, 2009 at 18:22

j
I never thought I would ever say this but I actually agree with you.

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Permalink Reply by Mac Davis on November 16, 2009 at 18:44

Good point. There are plenty of dishonest and incompetent people in almost any group of people you can name.

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Permalink Reply by The_Baron on November 17, 2009 at 4:02

During the boom many unexperienced people were recruited to do landwork. While I don't defend anyone intentionally misleading or defrauding anyone, This just shows how important it is to do your due dilligence in any finacial transaction.

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Permalink Reply by charlie brown on November 17, 2009 at 2:43

I don't write much, but I do read a lot on this site. J thank you for saying what you did!
As I have read all the chatter through the year, I am always amazed at the greed of people. I am 62 years of age and when I was about 6, our neighbor had an oil well drilled on his property but it was a dry hole. At that time everyone was talking about golden mailboxs.
When we see money being paid out we are always wanting more and more!
Only through the risks of the oil and gas exploration companies do we have the opportunity to become wealthy, and what greedy people we are. Why didn't "we" drill and then we could keep ALL the money!
I am NOT a landman or a oil and gas company employee, but if they said that they would drill on our property tomorrow, I would gladly give back the bonus that the landman paid me; and it was quite a sum of money.
I don't mean to hurt anyones feelings, but I am thankful to GOD that the opportunity is here again.

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Permalink Reply by Jon Williamson on November 17, 2009 at 13:16

Well said Charlie. The amount of greed in the world always amazes me although I'm not sure why anymore.

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Permalink Reply by DJG on November 17, 2009 at 5:34

I'd agree that there are probably some cases where things may have been mis-represented the other way around from land/mineral owner to O&G Co, then again I would imagine the actual percentage of times where this might have happened would be statistically miniscule in comparison to cases where the mis-representation has happend by, or on behalf of, the O&G.

I would also say that in cases where that O&G/Landman/Lease flipper may have mis-represented information to some elderly / uninformed / uneducated mineral owner that it might not technically be considered "fraud" but it is certainly "preditory".

Now, in a case where an O&G/Landman/Lease flipper was not smart enough, moving to fast, or just plain too lazy to do their own due dilligence and prove title prior to paying any bonus monies then I'd have to agree with your terminolgy on that one and say that they were indeed being an "idiot".

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Permalink Reply by Randy on November 16, 2009 at 14:06

I suppose they could be named in a lawsuit, but typically the operator will be responsible for the legal defense. Although that isn't always the case.

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Permalink Reply by James on November 16, 2009 at 14:28

It definitely illegal but would be impossible to prove unless it was in writing or part of a recorded conversation. As long as the tactic works and there are no repercussions, it will probably continue to be used. Surely no Landman could be so ill informed as to say something like that due to ignorance.

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Permalink Reply by The_Baron on November 17, 2009 at 4:03

Surely no Landman could be so ill informed as to say something like that due to ignorance.


You would be suprised.

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Permalink Reply by Missy on November 16, 2009 at 14:39

I am wondering the same thing. I wish I knew how knowledgeable my landman actually is, and how much authority he has. We had reached agreement, had papers ready, when I asked for check be delivered at time of signing..it went south (so to speak). He had already changed price on the day we were to sign. So I'm waiting on his call to deliver check... and now he tells me the price is thousands below what we agreed on. What is going on? Who tells him what to say, and why does it keep changing. It seems obvious to me that he never intended on paying me what we verbally agreed on. Please enlighten me.

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Permalink Reply by Missy on November 16, 2009 at 15:30

I have counsel and was advised not to sign until check is delivered. I offered to sign and keep the original, (give him copy) while he ordered the check. Wouldn't you think he would have the $$ if he expects me to sign a legal doc. stating that I have consideration 'in hand"? Before I decided not to sign without the check,
I asked him what he could offer me in writing to state the amount that we agreed on. Keep in mind, this amount has been approved by whomever he has to check with. His response to me was that if I didn't receive the amount that I thought I should get, I could take them to court. At my expense I'm sure.. No thank you. Its not the amount that 'I think I should get', its the agreed on amount between a company and an individual. He gave me the exact dollar figure. It seems to me, there are alot of very young landmen trying to do a job that they are not quailifed to do.

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