Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by dbob on February 19, 2012 at 12:23

Agreed that if they can be avoided, keep ROW off your property.  For those leasing minerals, look into "no surface occupancy" or similar clauses that can give you a bit a of leverage in where a pipeline or pad site might go.  

As far as ROW goes, if its going to be on you, negotiate for the minimum width needed, and make sure that temporary workspace reverts to your control a reasonable period of time after the pipeline is laid.  Pipeline companies will almost always ask for more ROW than they actually need - when faced with restriction, it can be narrowed significantly. 

You might want to have a reputable analytical or soil lab test your soil prior to installation.  Test for chlorides and conductivity, as a minimum, for saltwater lines, and consider testing for hydrocarbons if the line will carry petroleum products.  

Permalink Reply by Two Dogs, Pirate on February 19, 2012 at 12:34

Think that if I were a cattle rancher, I would have in my ROW contract a provision requiring that new gates along with cattle gaurds, the kind that are cemented, be placed at the entrance to my property. I hate buying pipeline ROW because there is really no benifit to the landowner.  We are going to take dirt from 48 inches down and place it on the surface, if you grow row crops you will see a reduced yield over the ROW. With an oil and gas lease, at least you have a chance of making some serious money. Luckely times have been good to me and the only pipelines have had to buy have been gathering lines.

Permalink Reply by Clyde T. Williams on February 19, 2012 at 14:23

Where does this come from and where are you going?

Yeah I know quite a bit about working on a real farm rather than landbank farm - never hunted except for the table - know that esp. with stock - it is one of the few 24/7/365 jobs still remaining...but telling townies that they don't know anything otuside of the most distant subdividion doesn't do anything for the LA/TX surface and subsurface holders and help them deal with those townies that are wheeling/dealing land leases.  ROWs and subsurface leases are not much different and people need headsup to make the deal best for us non-townies...Keep the focus on who we are helping and helping others help them.

Tom  

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Permalink Reply by Dry Hole on February 19, 2012 at 14:42

2 Dogs,

  I like that unique photo -- bet that took some planning. Lol

   The dual wheels on the 18 wheelers pick up lots of mud between the duals that shakes off  and fill a cattle guard up with dirt in short order ---- Cattle guards that are at least 10' across have 9" open cracks and are built over a running water >2' deep ditch work very well as the water keeps the pit open and cattle will not get a foot hung while testing it out.

   Top soil on ROW should be removed and stored but getting this done requires MICRO management by the landowner that is usually busy watching the gates.

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Permalink Reply by Dry Hole on February 22, 2012 at 15:34

 Have legal ? for Ben Elmore

   Ben,

   TransCanada got BUSH approval to build this Keystone Pipeline back in 2007 and most of us in E Texas were sure at that time that it was a "done deal" National ASAP Necessity and no need to fight it.

   So most timberland owners not only sold them a permanent ROW but also Temporary ROW and access roads ----- in most cases the time frame defined temporary as "for construction purposes " and returned their after to the rightful owner.

    The Temp. ROWs in most cases have already been stripped of their timber and have been waiting 2 yrs on construction for reforestation and reclamation ---- Now obviously through no fault of either party (Except Keystone did not have ducks in a row) it would seem that "temporary" will permanently clout the title of some of that acreage and may never be "released" in a timely manner ----- what would be the legal remedy to obtain a definition of "TEMPORARY" in this case be ? as this is already preventing production for some landowners.

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Permalink Reply by Ben Elmore on February 23, 2012 at 9:05

That would depend in part on the terms of the ROW if it contains any sort of time period.  If not, "temporary" is vague enough to mean different time periods depending on the circumstances.  What a landowner would likely need to do is go to court and assert that the parties did not intend the "temporary" ROW to be in place this long, and as such, the ROW has effectively terminated.  Alternatively, the landowner would assert breach of the ROW agreement as the use has extended beyond "temporary."  The problem is the term "temporary" is so vague, it will be a fact question for a jury to decide what the parties meant in terms of the time period.  Evidence of the parties' intent would need to be presented, which would likely be conflicting.  Also, some temporary ROWs will contain force majeure provisions that the ROW holder could rely upon to extend it. 

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Permalink Reply by Dry Hole on February 23, 2012 at 9:13

Thanks Ben,

   I personally will hold off as long as I can, but sooner or later "temporary" will have to be addressed.

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Permalink Reply by dbob on March 3, 2012 at 5:03

Horizontal/deep is probably far less expensive than a significant reroute and won't materially affect transport costs.  On the other hand, a reroute would have two options - A series of tight turns to get around the property in question - like making the block in a town square - it slows things down in the pipe due to friction, but doesn't change the length of line that much.  The other way around on a reroute is a broad arc or angle that avoids significant bends, but will require a lot of surveying and new environmental clearance on the broad re-route.  the larger the tract being avoided, the large the arc.  

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Permalink Reply by DrWAVeSport Cd1 on March 3, 2012 at 12:00

sesport II.

Thanks for the update. 

I agree with TX landowner Julia Crawford...  Get that video camera out and use it!

I once got the video camera out and taped, in full view of, a Caddo Parish Work Crew of EIGHT...Yes I said EIGHT... Who were to work on drainage ditches on a rural road where I live.  They were to dig ditches out deeper for better drainage. 

Were they digging before I went out and showed them my video camera?  NO!  They were sitting in trucks, talking, laughing, sitting on the back ends of trucks just havin' a good ole' time.  And it wasn't lunchtime.  This went on for over an hour before I began my taping.  Once they realized I was videotaping.  Low and behold... Work started and They did a mighty fine job! LOL  They worked for about two more hours. 

Funny how that video camera takes care of things...

And...  Every time a Caddo Parish Work Crew shows up now...  Work starts immediately. 

Your tax dollars at work for You.

DrWAVeSport Cd1 3/3/2012

 

 

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Permalink Reply by DrWAVeSport Cd1 on March 3, 2012 at 18:40

sesport II,

I apologize.  I was not making a "blanketed" comment per Parish, City, State employees.  Can't do that... I at one time in my younger days worked for the City of Shreveport... I was one of those employees with the "20 minute" lunch breaks... Usually No Lunch break.  Did my own "paperwork, filings, etc., etc., etc."  Life hasn't much changed you say?  I didn't get paid diddly sqaut either and worked some loooooong hours, no overtime, in old, crappy City offices so cold in the winter you froze and so hot in the summer you couldn't breathe. And you had to bring your own fan to put on the desk. LOL  Won't say under whose Administration.  LOL

My lame example was aimed at the need for individuals to be able to document "work" being performed in any venue, especially if that "work" could be the subject of "fines, malpractice, courts of law, termination, damages, illegal activity, etc."  Always hard to prove after the fact.

The video camera has its place when things just aren't on the up and up. IMHO

I still have the video I took about 4 or 5 years ago.  Didn't want to get anyone fired... Just wanted them to do the job. 

My "reply" wasn't a reflection of most hard working people.  Just a "reply," not an indictment of all Public employees.

"Personal needs?"  No such thing as "personal time off" when I worked for the City of Shreveport.  You didn't work, you didn't get paid. 

Well, thank goodness some things have changed.  LOL

DrWAVeSport Cd1 3/3/2012

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Clyde T. Williams on March 3, 2012 at 19:28

Always good to have a new digital video recorder and leave it running when negotiating and then before/during/after any works on your lands BUT remember they can ask for all records if it goes to court...

Tom

 

Permalink Reply by Clyde T. Williams on March 3, 2012 at 12:51

Always get numbers rather than "temporary" and you can provide - "unless otherwise accepted in writing by the owner"

Same with "adequate access" - - vs "from 7am to 7pm" OR/And Unless otherwise instructed in writing by the owner"

Proper restoration - "As required by the owner"

ALSO have a bond of sufficient $$$ for the owner to restore the area to the "owners' satisfaction"

The beauty of GHS is the ability for real people to get advice and wording to help you against 6 lawyers on retainer...I personally have done construction contracts up to $1B - words on paper are important for both sides...these issues are real to your lives and really don't bother the companies....

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