Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jaybird on June 14, 2009 at 6:28

We were offered the same $25/acre in Bienville in April by Seismic Exchange Inc.

CGG Veritas surveyed on our land in Claiborne Parish last year but when we signed the permit 2 years ago it was $5.00/acre. They did damage some trees on our property so they had a "Timber Guy" assess the damage and cut us a check for what we thought was fair.

Hope that helps.

Jaybird

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Permalink Reply by Les on June 16, 2009 at 5:02

Thanks for the input Jaybird. So far I'm hearing $25 is the going rate. Its nice to hear for a change I'm not getting a lowball offer like I repeatedly have been over lease bonuses and pipeline easement payments.
les

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Permalink Reply by Jerad Doty on June 18, 2009 at 16:05

$25.00 is more than fair les, the majority of everyone in the Barnett Shale received $5-10 and the majority not getting the latter. And as far as damage goes most good companies are going to either compensate for that or hire someone to put the land back the way it was. Les just a little word to the wise try and find some stories about people getting greedy over here in the Barnett Shale, they ended up with a whole lot less and some ended up with nothing because they held out for so long because $25,000.00 an acre wasn't enough, and what happened the economy got bad and the Oil and Gas Companies scaled back offers or just quit negotiating all together. But as far as $25.00 an acre for seismic that is excellent the most i ever paid anyone was $35 an acre in houston with 665 acres and that was dealing through a lawyer. Make sure you if you want any stipulations in the seismic permit you write them down on the permit and initial by it as well as the permit agents initials.

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Permalink Reply by Explorer on June 19, 2009 at 6:19

CGG is currently paying $15.00 per acre, the going rate is $25.00 per acre so you are not getting "low-balled." Which company is it?

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Permalink Reply by zrdc06 on June 22, 2009 at 6:15

Boy ... where to start ... 1st off ... the going rate in NW La. IS $25.00 an acre. Seismic does not have to be shot in a square or rectangle. Surface conditions as well as an O&G cos. area of interest or existing acreage usually dictates the size and shape of any given survey. I don't know where you heard that a survey couldn't be shot without 500-600 acres in the center of a shoot. Quite often, data is NOT recorded where a landowner with 500-600 acres refused access. However, keep in mind that O&G cos. with mineral leases have rights to see the subsurface in spite of what a landowner may demand. In this case, O&G may get a temporary restraining order to gain access to the surface. If this is the case, the landowner gets $0 per acre and O&G just makes any necessary repairs to the surface. I'm not sure where you got your definition of a "bin" but your description is simplistic at best and these "small" squares can be 110ft x 110ft. They can also be larger or smaller than this depending on the survey design or the post acquisition processing criteria. Also ... if you have a small tract ... the O&G will NOT just shoot over you. They may undershoot the acreage if it's small enough but they will NOT trespass and shoot over you but the same situation occurs, as I stated above, if the O&G has mineral rights.

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Permalink Reply by zrdc06 on June 23, 2009 at 7:54

I have been dealing with seismic companies for thirty years on both sides of the fence

I'm not sure what you mean by dealing with seismic companies from both sides of the fence. This is a bit cryptic. Can you be a little more specific about your qualifications in regards to geophysics or seismic acquisition? I am a geophysicist and as of 2 weeks ago, I have been involved IN the seismic industry for 30 years ... mainly on the operational and technical side. The legal side is not my forte but I know enough to confidently say that I know a little more than "squat" on the subject.


He heard that 500 or 600 acres in the center of a shoot would stop a shoot from me because it will.

Actually Jim ... my comments were addressed to you. I was asking where YOU got your information regarding this. Wherever you got it from ... it is absolutely wrong. 500-600 acres in the center of a shoot WILL NOT stop acquisition. An acquisition company can simply shoot around you ... it happens all the time. An aquisition company can simply undershoot you ... this ALSO happens all the time.


Oil & gas leases do not grant permission to shoot seismic unless the form has been altered
Unless the lease form has been altered, an oil & gas lease does not grant permission to shoot seismic

Kind of ... from what I've seen, O&G leases do not specifically grant permission ... but any "altered" permits "restrict" the acquisition. Un-"altered" leases gives the O&G the right to acquire seismic ... So ... unless the lease is altered it doesn't "restrict" the O&G from acquiring data ... I'll defer further comment on this to KB.


They will absolutely shoot over you, with or without a permit

We're dealing with 2 different permits here ... the surface permit and the mineral permit. If the surface owner also still holds the minerals and the landowner grants permission ... or ... separate land owner and mineral lease holder agree to access ... no problem ... acquire away. If the surface owner grants access but someone other than the surface owner or acquiring company holds the mineral interest and they deny access, then data can be acquired at the surface but any data covering the minerals must be removed from post acquisition processing before the data is handed over to the O&G. If the surface owner denies surface access where the O&G has a mineral interest, then the O&G can get a court order that allows them access.

If your lands are on the outside of the shoot or are smaller than a "bin", which is the size of the small squares created by positioning the lines closer or farther apart., you do not have much leverage, as they will have enough data without you. If you have a small tract, they will shoot over you whether or not they have a permit.

OK ... which is it? Do I have enough data without them or do I shoot over them regardless? If I have enough data ... I don't see the need to shoot over them?


The small squares, or bins, are from 10 to 40 acres.

The bin size is really irrelevant in the context of this discussion. The bin size is a byproduct of design and more pertinent considerations would be Fresnel zone, migration aperture and fold distribution ... all of which are affected by the deisgn. But ... using your numbers ... a 1 acre square is equal to approximately 208.7 ft by 208.7 ft ... you suggest that bins are 10 to 40 acres ... so roughly 660 ft x 660 ft in the 10 acre case and 1320 ft x 1320 ft in the 40 acre case. (Don't just multiply 208.7 by 10 or 40 to get the dimensions ... this is geometry ... but you knew that). .... 660 x 660 or 1320 x 1320 .... for crying out loud ... all these years I've been using 110 x 110 or 220 x 220 ... I must be wrong and need to go back and correct years of errors


A company cannot just get a restraining order and a landowner get nothing

Companies usually try to avoid it ... but YES they CAN ... and landowners do get nothing other than any necessary surface repairs ... it happens all the time.


http://www.oilandgaslawyerblog.com/2009/04/how-do-seismic-surveys-w...

Jim ... I'm not sure why you included this link. It has no bearing on what we've discussed other than to illustrate in a very simplistic form what occurs during seismic acquisition. Kind of like sticking someone in an airplane, telling them to push that lever to go, move the stick left and right and forward and backward and then telling them to fly the darned thing ... there is much more to it ... I hope that link isn't your primary reference.

This kind of bad information is confusing and you don't know squat about what you are saying.

Do we really want to take this discussion in that direction?

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Permalink Reply by The_Baron on June 24, 2009 at 5:09

Thank you rd.

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Permalink Reply by lanadan Ds3 on June 24, 2009 at 21:33

K.B.,

" . . . A company cannot just get a restraining order . . . , etc. , " . . . but YES they CAN . . . etc. "

But what about a UMI's situation. Can the seis people just "force" their way onto your property without your permission ?

If yes, then I'll just tell 'em to take a long look at the Rott in the yard and give him the leg that they don't want ! LOL

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Permalink Reply by The_Baron on June 25, 2009 at 7:49

Is is a violation of property rights to undershoot someone?? I doubt it. It is no different than reading earthquakes.

Permalink Reply by zrdc06 on June 25, 2009 at 7:05

An O&G will not seek a restraining order unless they have the mineral lease. In the case of a UMI ... they may seek to gain permission from the landowner but in this case they will not seek court action to gain access. That would be surface AND mineral trespass as I understand it. Again ... I am from the operational and technical side ... not the legal side. I'll defer those questions to those in the know on the legal side ...

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Permalink Reply by Explorer on June 23, 2009 at 2:52

Jim Krow, as stated already, a 500 or 600 hundred acre "no permit" will NOT stop a seismic shoot from occurring. Also, please clarify what you mean when you say "they will absolutely shootover you, with or without a permit."

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Permalink Reply by Jerad Doty on June 24, 2009 at 4:57

Right on target rd. In my experiences everytime I have mentioned a TRO and ask the landowner to review their lease or to get legal council from there lawyer, shortly thereafter a change in tune usually occurs. Now i believe and I may be wrong but usually it will state a right to ingress and egress, I may be way out of the ball park on that one, rd you may know for sure.

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