Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Joe Aldridge on June 17, 2015 at 15:15

Skip,

There is no global warming. Look at the science. Look at the NASA data from the satellite they launched to study this. That data has just been released. It shows no global warming over the last 10 years. Follow the science not the propaganda.

What you are quoting is old information that were "beliefs". That is theory; not scientific fact. Don't believe things that you are simply told. Study and research. Then make an informed decision. Again You are quoting beliefs not facts.

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Permalink Reply by Skip Peel - Mineral Consultant on June 17, 2015 at 15:51

Joe, research and analysis is how I make my living.  I understand and accept the science.  I also don't see any evidence of a conspiracy.  The information I have posted is neither propaganda nor is it dated.

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Permalink Reply by Joe Aldridge on June 17, 2015 at 19:52

Hey Skip,

I finally figured it out. You represent people/companies that have carbon credits for sale. That would be the only reason for promoting the position you have. So you have a "dog in the hunt".

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Permalink Reply by Skip Peel - Mineral Consultant on June 18, 2015 at 1:47

Nope.  You figured wrong - again, Joe.  I've done my due diligence and come to my conclusion.  However beyond any difference in opinion on the science the contention that this is a conspiracy is irrational for the many reasons I have provided.  Could it be that some of us are actually concerned for the future of our planet and those who will have to live on it after we are gone?

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Permalink Reply by Keith Mauck (Site Publisher) on June 19, 2015 at 3:56

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2012/05/31/sorry-global-wa...

Climate change itself is already in the process of definitively rebutting climate alarmists who think human use of fossil fuels is causing ultimately catastrophic global warming.  That is because natural climate cycles have already turned from warming to cooling, global temperatures have already been declining for more than 10 years, and global temperatures will continue to decline for another two decades or more.

That is one of the most interesting conclusions to come out of the seventh International Climate Change Conference sponsored by the Heartland Institute, held last week in Chicago.  I attended, and served as one of the speakers, talking about The Economic Implications of High Cost Energy.

The conference featured serious natural science, contrary to the self-interested political science you hear from government financed global warming alarmists seeking to justify widely expanded regulatory and taxation powers for government bodies, or government body wannabees, such as the United Nations.  See for yourself, as the conference speeches are online.

What you will see are calm, dispassionate presentations by serious, pedigreed scientists discussing and explaining reams of data.  In sharp contrast to these climate realists, the climate alarmists have long admitted that they cannot defend their theory that humans are causing catastrophic global warming in public debate.  With the conference presentations online, let’s see if the alarmists really do have any response.

The Heartland Institute has effectively become the international headquarters of the climate realists, an analog to the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).  It has achieved that status through these international climate conferences, and the publication of its Climate Change Reconsidered volumes, produced in conjunction with the Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change (NIPCC).

Those Climate Change Reconsidered volumes are an equivalently thorough scientific rebuttal to the irregular Assessment Reports of the UN’s IPCC.  You can ask any advocate of human caused catastrophic global warming what their response is to Climate Change Reconsidered.  If they have none, they are not qualified to discuss the issue intelligently.

Check out the 20^th century temperature record, and you will find that its up and down pattern does not follow the industrial revolution’s upward march of atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2), which is the supposed central culprit for man caused global warming (and has been much, much higher in the past).  It follows instead the up and down pattern of naturally caused climate cycles.

For example, temperatures dropped steadily from the late 1940s to the late 1970s.  The popular press was even talking about a coming ice age.  Ice ages have cyclically occurred roughly every 10,000 years, with a new one actually due around now.

In the late 1970s, the natural cycles turned warm and temperatures rose until the late 1990s, a trend that political and economic interests have tried to milk mercilessly to their advantage.  The incorruptible satellite measured global atmospheric temperatures show less warming during this period than the heavily manipulated land surface temperatures.

Central to these natural cycles is the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO).  Every 25 to 30 years the oceans undergo a natural cycle where the colder water below churns to replace the warmer water at the surface, and that affects global temperatures by the fractions of a degree we have seen.  The PDO was cold from the late 1940s to the late 1970s, and it was warm from the late 1970s to the late 1990s, similar to the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (AMO).

In 2000, the UN’s IPCC predicted that global temperatures would rise by 1 degree Celsius by 2010.  Was that based on climate science, or political science to scare the public into accepting costly anti-industrial regulations and taxes?

Don Easterbrook, Professor Emeritus of Geology at Western Washington University, knew the answer.  He publicly predicted in 2000 that global temperatures would decline by 2010.  He made that prediction because he knew the PDO had turned cold in 1999, something the political scientists at the UN’s IPCC did not know or did not think significant.

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Permalink Reply by Skip Peel - Mineral Consultant on June 19, 2015 at 4:30

All traditional news media makes room for opinion pieces.  And there are always those who are willing to take both sides of a debate.  The vast majority of those arguing against AGW are not scientists.  If one believes the science matters than those results, not opinions, should carry the day.  Emphasis added is my own.

How climate change deniers got it right — but very wrong

06/16/15 08:30 PM   By Tony Dokoupil

It turns out the climate change deniers were right: There isn’t 97% agreement among climate scientists. The real figure? It’s not lower, but actually higher.

The scientific “consensus” on climate change has gotten stronger, surging past the famous — and controversial — figure of 97% to more than 99.9%, according to a new study reviewed by msnbc. 

James L. Powell, director of the National Physical Sciences Consortium, reviewed more than 24,000 peer-reviewed papers on global warming published in 2013 and 2014. Only five reject the reality of rising temperatures or the fact that human emissions are the cause, he found.

 “It’s now a ruling paradigm, as much an accepted fact in climate science as plate tectonics is in geology and evolution is in biology,” he told msnbc. “It’s 99.9% plus.”

Powell, a member of the National Science Board under Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, decided to share an exclusive draft of his research on Tuesday — just days before Pope Francis is set to deliver a major address on climate change — because he doesn’t want his holiness to reference outdated numbers.

“I don’t want the Pope to say 97%,” Powell said by phone, arguing that accuracy now is more important than ever. “It’s wrong, and it’s not trivial.”

Pope Francis is preparing to charge into the political debate over climate change, citing “a very consistent scientific consensus” and the risk of “unprecedented destruction,” according to a leaked draft of Thursday’s papal encyclical.

The notion of 97% agreement among climate scientists started with studies in 2009 and 2010. It wasn’t until a 2013 study, however, that the figure went viral. President Barack Obama tweeted it. The comedian John Oliver set up a slapstick debate between a climate change denier and 97 of his peers. 

But Powell argues that acceptance of man-made global warming has grown. The author of a new Columbia University Press book on scientific revolutions used an online database to compile a mountain of global warming papers published in the last two years.

He also tried a different approach than the earlier studies. Rather than search for explicit acceptance of anthropomorphic global warming, Powell searched for explicit rejection. All the papers in the middle, he figured, weren’t neutral on the subject — they were settled on it.

The results include work from nearly the entire population of working climate scientists — close to 70,000 scientists, often sharing their byline with three or four other authors. They also include a dwindling opposition: Powell could find only four solitary authors who challenged the evidence for human-caused global warming.

That’s a rate of one dissenting voice for every 17,000 agreeing scientists, and it’s not a strong voice. Powell called the four dissents “known deniers and crackpots,” and noted that their work had been cited only once by the wider academic community.  

“I don’t want the Pope to say 97%. It’s wrong, and it’s not trivial.” James L. Powell, director of the National Physical Sciences Consortium Naomi Oreskes, a professor of the history of science at Harvard, hasn’t read the Powell paper but she doesn’t doubt the general direction of the findings.

Back in 2004, she became the first researcher to claim a “consensus” on climate change, finding a roughly 75% agreement within the literature.

“Scientists have done so much more work since then,” she said. For me, as a historian of science, it really feels like overkill. One starts to think, how many more times do we need to say this before we really get it and start to act on it?”

One reason for inaction of course is politics. Many of the world’s leaders still doubt the science of climate change, assuming incorrectly that it’s unsettled or exploratory. The view is especially prevalent among the current crop of Republican presidential candidates.

Earlier this month, for example, former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum told Fox News that the pope would be “better off leaving science to the scientists.” Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz, meanwhile, claim that the science remains vague or is made up entirely.

That raises a second reason for inaction, according to Oreskes: intentional deception. Oreskes is the co-author of the “Merchants of Doubt,” a book that demonstrated how interest groups had undermined the science on tobacco, ozone depletion, acid rain and now climate change.

Many self-proclaimed “climate skeptics” no longer deny that the globe is warming, and some even acknowledge a human role in the new heat wave. Instead, they now say, warming is real — it just isn’t dangerous. They also attack the idea of a consensus, whatever the percentage.

“Nothing has really changed there,” said Oreskes. “The details shift but the overall picture remains the same. It’s a bit like Monet’s water lilies; it can look different at different at different times of day but it’s the same picture.”

Powell, however, hopes his work can finally close the debate, end the notion of doubt, move the frame ahead.  

“There isn’t any evidence against global warming and there isn’t any alternative theory,” he said. “We’ve been looking for negative feedbacks and we’ve never found one that amounts to anything. It’s not impossible that we will, but I wouldn’t bet my grandchildren’s future on it.” 

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/how-climate-change-deniers-got-it-very-w...

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Permalink Reply by cocodrie man on June 20, 2015 at 0:38

I appreciate the level of debate and conversation more often than not exhibited in this thread.  People of differing thoughts have for the most part expressed their thinking and attempted to demonstrate why they think as they do.  Such maturity is often lacking in the world of the internet.

And now, for a tangent that may be of interest to owners of forest land...Might there emerge an opportunity for landowners to benefit from a cap and trade mandate? In particular, those who have timber might be able to sell credits to companies needing the same. Some versions of this scenario now exist in other parts of the world.  If such were to emerge in Louisiana, I would hope those who own land could work together in a coalition to protect our interests and secure the best deals.  Such a coalition might enable the full participation of people who own smaller tracts of timber.  

Just for the record, no one represents me in this wonderment.  I have approached the O&G attorney in northwest Louisiana who represents me but so far as I know, he is not a member of Go Haynesville Shale.  

Do you know anything about such a program?

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Permalink Reply by Skip Peel - Mineral Consultant on June 20, 2015 at 2:04

Carbon credits could be a significant economic boosts for Louisiana's timber industry and the state economy in general.  I am unaware of any plans for a policy that would enable such at this time.  I think this is a good adjunct to the discussion topic and would welcome some examples of how cap and trade could enclude timber lands.

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Permalink Reply by Max on June 20, 2015 at 3:45

Cocodrie man, there was a Carbon Credit Program operating in 2008 that I sighed up for.  I got paid a little over two thousand dollars for entering my timber (80 acres) into the program.  The program fizzled out and expired the next year.  I know someone else who received over 25K for their trees (600+ acres). 

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Permalink Reply by Skip Peel - Mineral Consultant on June 20, 2015 at 3:48

Max, what agency administered the Carbon Credit Program?  I'd like to look at the details of the program. 

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Permalink Reply by Skip Peel - Mineral Consultant on June 20, 2015 at 4:06

Max and cocodrie man, I see there is a good bit of information about carbon credits and potential benefits for Louisiana, public entities and individual land owners.  I think this is a topic that deserves its own discussion.  I'll get us started on the Main Page with a couple of articles that I found of interest.

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Permalink Reply by Keith Mauck (Site Publisher) on July 8, 2015 at 3:41

There are credible folks who dissent on this.

In 2008, Dr. Ivar Giaever joined over 70 Nobel Science Laureates in endorsing Barack Obama for president, but seven years later the Nobel Prize winner now stands against the president on global warming.

“I would say that basically global warming is a non-problem,” Giaever, who won the Nobel for physics in 1973, told an audience at the Lindau Nobel Laureate meeting earlier this month.

Giaever ridiculed Obama for stating that “no challenge poses a greater threat to future generations than climate change.” The physicist called it a “ridiculous statement” and that Obama “gets bad advice” when it comes to global warming.

“I say this to Obama: Excuse me, Mr. President, but you’re wrong. Dead wrong,” Giaever said.

Giaever was a professor at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute’s School of Engineering and School of Science and received the Nobel Prize for physics for his work on quantum tunneling. Giaever said he was “horrified” about the science surrounding global warming when he conducted research on the subject in 2012.

Ironically, just four years earlier he signed a letter with more than 70 other Nobel winners saying the “country urgently needs a visionary leader” and that “Senator Barack Obama is such a leader, and we urge you to join us in supporting him.”

But by 2011,  Giaever left the American Physical Society because it officially stated that “the evidence is incontrovertible … [g]lobal warming is occurring.” The Society also pushed for reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

“Global warming really has become a new religion,” Giaever said. “Because you cannot discuss it. It’s not proper. It is like the Catholic Church.”

Giaever argued that there’s been no global warming for the last 17 years or so (based on satellite records), weather hasn’t gotten more extreme and that global temperature has only slightly risen — and that’s based on data being “fiddled” with by scientists, he said.

“When you have a theory and the theory does not agree with the experiment then you have to cut out the theory. You were wrong with the theory,” Giaever said.

Read more:  http://dailycaller.com/2015/07/07/nobel-prize-winning-scientist-say...

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