Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Greedy Landowner on July 19, 2008 at 16:21

No one should ever make the mistake of giving up any percentage of royalties.

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Permalink Reply by DESOTO EXCIT on July 19, 2008 at 16:35

Thank you for your reply!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't thank so!

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Permalink Reply by DESOTO EXCIT on July 19, 2008 at 16:36

I thought--someone must really be hard up to get their hand
on some money--to want to give it away at the same time!!!!!!!!!!!

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Permalink Reply by Kassi on July 19, 2008 at 16:59

You should never sign with anyone who wants part of your royalty. As to the percentage of the signing bonus, I think 5% is excessive.

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Permalink Reply by DESOTO EXCIT on July 19, 2008 at 17:03

Thank you kassi--i appreciate your reply

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Permalink Reply by elgato on July 20, 2008 at 5:26

Good grief people...you think 5% to an attorney is excessive. It amazes me how the internet has democritized information to the point that everyone can google information and ask themselves 'what do I need an attorney for?'

I hope all of you realize that a typical listing agreement with a broker to buy/sell land contains a 6% commission. But nobody complains about real estate agents splitting $12,000 on a $200,000 land transaction - and that's an amicable arm's length transaction. But that same person will cry foul when the attorney makes 5% for negotiating under more adversarial circumstances when more is at stake! I quote A. Lincoln: the person who represents himself has a fool for a client!

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Permalink Reply by elgato on July 20, 2008 at 6:13

You have missed the bus Earl...the 'deceit and fearmongering' spin you are putting on my post is laughable. And no, i'm not trying to derogate from your right to be informed...and no, I don't feel threatened by your self-help enlightenment. And if you are blinded by dis-information you should look a little closer at your sources of information rather than go full tilt on trained professionals that bring value to a situation.

My mother has a cousin that leased for $250/ac in a hot spot, she completely neglected the professional resources that were available in her extended family. The other cousin associated an attorney and now she is set. Did that attorney make his/her money thru 'deceit and fearmongering'? I don't think so.

Dissatisfaction results from the collision of uninformed landowners and opportunistic O&G. In the end, I hope you are completely satisfied with your decisions. But you are bringing a keyboard to a gunfight. Good luck.

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Permalink Reply by DrWAVeSport Cd1 on July 20, 2008 at 7:09

It would seem to me, elgato, that your Mom's cousin did get fleeced, along with thousands of other mineral owners who signed leases several months ago...or maybe even some who are signing leases today. We agree, professional advice is very handy, essential and necessary when going into business, which is what we are really doing...going into business with a "gunfighter." I think we are speaking the same language, we just differ as to how EXPENSIVE that "professional" advice becomes and just HOW FAR INTO THE FUTURE one continues to pay for that ONE-TIME ONLY ADVICE.

Your Mom's cousin could have signed several months ago with professional advice and still been fleeced. I know a lawyer, two doctors, an O&G guy, and several other professional people who got more "professional" advice and all were FLEECED (several months ago.) Today, they point out that ONLY hindsight is 20/20, and ONLY forward-thinking "advisors" could have saved them...no matter what they PAID!

With or without "paying" for advice does not conclude that one is removing or adding "value" to a deal/contract. The uninformed will NEVER KNOW TO GET ADVICE FROM ANYWHERE...and they will sign leases when the first available one gets put under their nose.

I am enjoying your analogy of "bringing a keyboard to a gunfight."
If you are right in that analogy...then we are ALL IN FOR A ROUGH RIDE...no matter what you paid for someone's advice...you still brought a keyboard to the fight! (joking)

Enjoying your debate. DrWAVeSportV

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Permalink Reply by DrWAVeSport Cd1 on July 20, 2008 at 5:52

People in 2008 are not the same people A. Lincoln knew. Plenty of homeowners sell their own homes and save thousands of dollars. I have.

Cliches are just that...cliches. However, I agree with you about one thing...If I ever need a criminal attorney, I will use one. (I believe I am quoting Snake here...Ha, Ha)

There is enough information, there are enough negotiating groups, and there are PLENTY of attorneys who will do this lease work for hourly fees, or a flat fee, or much smaller %ages. If mineral owners cannot find a local attorney, there a PLENTY of attorneys in this state and in all other states who will go over your lease contract. The leasing of land to O&G companies has been around for 200 years! The "leases" are still the same, just additional addenda protecting mineral owners. However, the mineral owners are more informed than they have ever been before, certainly more so than when Abe was around. The only thing that has changed (imo) seems to be that the negotiating skills of mineral owners have become a force to be reckoned with...

Still...the game field is uneven and weighted to the O&Gs and the E&Ps and the attorneys...but NWLa shale owners are catching up, and they have been doing a GREAT job at becoming educated on their own.

And, one more question...for those who are reading...for that 5%/6%...of bonus moneys or % of royalty moneys...will that ATTORNEY be ready, willing and "around" for you if you need him/her in 10 years per your lease...since you will have been PRE-PAYING him/her out of your ROYALTY CHECKS FOR THE NEXT 10-20-30-40 YEARS??????????

Think about it shalers...

Just my (h) opine.

DrWAVeSport 7/19/08

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Permalink Reply by ledlights on July 20, 2008 at 6:24

Are you kidding? No one complains about the 6% real estate commission? What desert island are you living on? Plus that 6% is predicated on a very low percentage of success for agents - they fail far more often than they succeed. That is not the case in mineral leasing agreements, plus a mineral lease is a very standard arrangement that on average has much less variation that real estate negotiations. People who are familiar with these kind of negotiations would never pay 5%. You are just suggesting that inexperienced folk should be fleeced.

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Permalink Reply by elgato on July 20, 2008 at 6:31

quote: 'plus a mineral lease is a very standard arrangement that on average has much less variation that real estate negotiations.'

I don't think I'm the one on a desert island.

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Permalink Reply by ledlights on July 20, 2008 at 6:56

Do you dispute this statement? "People who are familiar with these kind of negotiations would never pay 5%. "

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