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Permalink Reply by Kim on July 19, 2012 at 11:14

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Permalink Reply by Vernon on July 20, 2012 at 0:55

I've been told that it is based on the different values of the land in different areas.  I am not sure that I totally agree with that however.  A friend of mine received $325/rod (plus damages) in 2008 from OneOk (Liberty Co., TX) when they put in their other pipeline (Sterling II I think) parallel to this one.  He has not received his initial offer yet for this new line.

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Permalink Reply by adubu on July 20, 2012 at 6:37

Vernon--- suggest use this sites search on go haynesville shale above--- type in Pipeline ROW--- you will find about 30 treads on this site that discusses every issue about ROW agreements, prices variable to pipe size and loacation, etc --- if you review these I think you will find answers to any question you have and need.

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Permalink Reply by Vernon on July 20, 2012 at 7:50

Yes sir, I have done that.  I also have a land man hired and I feel confident that I have my contract (with addendums) the way I want it (if they agree) except for the price.  But I am most interested in finding out about current ROW rates.  That information seems to be difficult to come by. 

Many ROW owners have signed confidentiality clauses and they are afraid to say anything.  Also I think that a large majority of surface owners do not own their mineral rights (I do) so therefore they are not on these forums either. 

This pipeline is 570 miles long and should be affecting a lot of surface owners but I have not found many.

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Permalink Reply by adubu on July 20, 2012 at 12:41

Vernon--- how many rods across your land does the ROW they desire? Is it primary farm land or what. Can they go around you or do they --"must have your ROW" These are all negotiating points. A 16" pipeline moderate size. I have a pipeline  in East Texas 16" pipe with ETP  in 2008 and they need to go across me 120 rods --- was not a must have, but would have been costly to chance route.  Agreed at $450 rod plus timber damage $ extra.  permanent 30' easement. Land in country primary Cattle use. All income other than damage was accounted as decrease cost bases in land so no income tax paid on ROW easement.   you desire to work deal for if they carry you to court it is too costly and some judge may value your land a value per acre and award you on acres in the easement only-- that would suck-- which in my case if calculated 120X16X30=93,600 Sq feet = 93,600/43,560= 2.15 acres at $4000= $8, 300 Vs agreement at 450 rod X 120=$54,000--- I like 54k better. 

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Permalink Reply by Vernon on July 21, 2012 at 1:07

adubu,

"I like 54k better."  I would too!  LOL

My neighbor and I are using the same landman so hopefully we will have a little more bargaining power.  Mine is a little over 100 rods (3.03 ac.) and his is 300+ rods - about 440 rods total.  Going around us is always possible but I do not think it is probable.  They want to lay this new line parallel with their existing line.  They started at $200/rod.  Our landman suggested $300 to me but I am thinking we should be able to do better.

This is kind of like negotiating a permanent mineral lease bonus with no royalties.  :-(

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Permalink Reply by adubu on July 21, 2012 at 3:16

vernon-- if they already have an easement ROW with pipeline this is prefect example I assume you have in your 1st agreement only ONE pipe or they would have just added this pipe without paying you anything more.If they desire to lay new line parallel with existing line do that need new easement to widen old easement to have room for 2nd pipe of extra 30'? Or can they use some of old easement with less feet to widen total for 2nd pipe? If they don't need a extra 30' but just want it--- this could be negotiated for less land in easement and if already ROW across you with another pipe then I would take the $300 your landman must have been authorized to do deal or ask the landman what he think max he can get for you based on his knowledge of other ROW done already on this pipeline. Adding a parallel easement will not effect you that much more than existing ROW already does IMO unless it effect something you have plans for near the easement. 30k for you and 90k for your neighbor not bad pay day especially can be tax free by simple decreasing your cost bases in land or deferred tell you sell it one day or if your children inherit it then they receive tax free with cost bases at appraised value at time ( Unless you have big Esate and they get hit with Estate Tax but that their problem).Vernon when you say "our landman" are you referring to some one you hired to negoitate the deal for you or is he the Landman that is broker working for pipeline company?

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Permalink Reply by Vernon on July 21, 2012 at 4:38

The previous ROW was negotiated by the previous owner.  I have not seen a copy but apparently it was for "one only".  The new pipeline calls for a 50 ft. ROW measured from the C/L of the other line so is therefore 25 ft. apart.

"Our landman" works for us.  He actually works "both sides of the fence".  He negotiates for landowners when there is no conflict of interest.

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Permalink Reply by adubu on July 21, 2012 at 8:51

they will need 20 feet temporary for constuction and only 30 feet permant so don't let them take 50 feet permanently --- is pipe 25 feet apart or the edge of easement 25 feet. I think they only require 25 feet between pipe so clarify that with them if so only extra 15-20 feet need in ROW easement if they are owner of the other pipe by making this a combined ROW easement for both pipes. this will save you 25-30 feet of restricted surface on your land. Ask neighbor to share copy of prior ROW so you can be sure it's what you need by adding all the good clause you have pick up from this site on other threads

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Permalink Reply by Kim on July 21, 2012 at 4:16

Vernon, how did u find your landman?

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Permalink Reply by Vernon on July 21, 2012 at 4:39

My neighbor has used him for a number of previous projects and recommended that we both use him on this one.

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Permalink Reply by Bacon on July 22, 2012 at 2:17

I would just comment to Kim that, in our experience, their initial offer is always lowball.  We were offered $420 for a 42" and ended up around $750 a rod + damages.  We are in a somewhat unique area in the HA so that might be high for other areas. We have several ROWs with different companies across our property but they all seem to go by the same playbook.

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