Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by The_Baron on September 20, 2010 at 7:10

OMG!@!


"I suspect the O and G operators or their contractors have been using the drum or oil barrel as the standard, thus cheating many landowners."

Really??? of course we use the oil barrel.

In the U.k. a barrel of beer is 36 imperial gallons! or about 43 u.s. gallons. Budweiser is cheating me too!!!! An american barrel of beer is only 31 gallons (yes, even a "cheat from the "standard").

... every industry has its standards. Why would we measure oil one way and water another? Keep in mind that when we measure water, it was traditionally produced water, it makes perfect sense to maintain the same units over to frac water.

Chill out.

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Permalink Reply by The_Baron on September 20, 2010 at 7:12

If you are that worried about being "cheated" perhaps you should heat up your water first, it will expand slightly and earn you a few extra cents.

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Permalink Reply by prudhoe bay on September 20, 2010 at 9:10

Cheated may have been the wrong word, but nonetheless the US {not UK} standard is 31.5 gallons and that is what I would negotiate for.

As I stated, "I" would not do a document that stated otherwise and the difference is not a few cents but almost 34%, which when you are talking in the acre foot amounts you are talking about thousands of dollars.

Again do your research, it will show that the 42 gallon measure is the legal and customary measure for oil. I know of no other liquid which is commercially transacted in 42 gallon units. I do not disagree that 42 gallons may be what they have been using but would it not be nice if we landowners, {surface and mineral} could at least have a point to negotiate in our favor.

Also, any good metering device should compensate for the temperature.

Did not mean to garner anyones ire, just to inform what is standard. Just because they have been paying x does not mean it cannot be changed to y.

In case you are wondering, I am an extreme proponent for the expanded use of, and drilling for, NG in every way possible and think most of the anti o and g hype is environmental lunacy. Instead of infighting we should all be focused on educating the public on the environmental acceptability of NG drilling and hydro fracing.

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Permalink Reply by Worn Out N1 on September 20, 2010 at 11:09

The prices they are quoting are for a 42 gal barrel. That was stated on the front end. There is no cheating. That is the usual size acording to the co.

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Permalink Reply by The_Baron on September 21, 2010 at 3:19

Why should we deviate from standard practice. A barrel in the oil industry is 42 gallons. Negociate your price on that amount.

anyway just for info
http://www.oil150.com/essays/2007/08/the-42-gallon-barrel-history

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Permalink Reply by Worn Out N1 on September 21, 2010 at 9:45

Thanks. Does anyone know what the going rate is for water right now in Natchitoches Parish?

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Permalink Reply by Lee on September 21, 2010 at 4:47

Since I'm the originator of this discussion, I'll sum up the experience I ad with the purchasers of the water.

Overall it was a very satisfactory experience. The purchasers were forthright and easy to deal with. The impact on the property was minimal, although the pond was low for a short time since the job took more water and time than planned. And, yes, a barrel is 42 gallons. Negotiations should be on the basis of price (not size of barrel-that's a waste of time) and impact on the property. Price depends on the scarcity of water at the time. Water in the Eagle Ford is a heck of a lot more expensive than here. I don't have a read on current price in the Haynesville to offer.

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Permalink Reply by The_Baron on September 21, 2010 at 5:08

Thank you Lee. It should be noted that water rights in the Eagle Ford are far different and would be hard to compare.... for example all surface water in TX is the property of the state.

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Permalink Reply by king john on October 3, 2010 at 14:14

the amount of water used in a frac job varies depending on the number of stages. chesapeakes web site says about 5.6 million gallons for an average well. i snipped this from there.
kj
How much is 5.6 million gallons?
The 5.6 million gallons of water needed to drill and fracture a
Haynesville deep shale gas well is equivalent to the amount of
water:
 Flowing past Shreveport, Louisiana, in the Red River
every 57 seconds
 Used by a 1,000 megawatt coal-fired power plant in 13
hours
 Used by a golf course in 28 days
 Consumed by nine acres of corn in a season
While these represent continuing consumption,
the water used for a shale gas well is a one‐time use.

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Permalink Reply by slowrollin1970 on October 10, 2010 at 18:03

Not related to gas wells or frac water for a well..... The papermill in Mansfield and the papermill in Campti, la each consume right at 10 million gallons per day. When compared it really isnt that much water anymore, now is it?

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Permalink Reply by Chad E Ellis on October 4, 2010 at 2:24

Baron,

Please explain the Texas Surface Water rights statement. My family and I have built several ponds on our lands in East Texas and have been selling frac water for over 10 years. Our legal representation advises that there are no regulatory statues that would prevent us from doing so. I know that there may be some local regulations that restrict groundwater use, but surface water in impoundments wholly enclosed by a single landowner belongs to that surface owner. If you know of some other restrictions please let me know, as this is a very lucrative business for us. As a note we are in the Harrison and Panola county area.

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Permalink Reply by Phillip Briggs on October 7, 2010 at 6:53

That's news to me. Western states... yeah, this is true. Non-navigable waters (private ponds and lakes) waters belong to the landowners... to do with as they wish. Even groundwater belongs to the surface owner... to do with as they wish.

Some counties are starting freshwater districts, to protect local landowners against corporate water resource mining, for bottled water. If your not in a "district", Nestle or any other bottled water group can come in and deplete an aquifer, and it's tough noogies for surrounding well owners... In a "district" and they've got a lot of legal hoops to jump through, with legal consequences.

I've got a private lake, with over 200 acre feet of water... I can sell it to anyone I want... just wish someone 'wanted' some. :)

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