Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by mooncookie on September 12, 2008 at 17:54

Depends on the drama you are willing to endure....like selling cars and buying houses get any and everything out on the table and get the group in writing that way you don't have someone back-out last minute and screw up your negotiations.

If you do it straight-up then it could be worthwhile, if not you can imagine.

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Permalink Reply by Snake Stewart on September 13, 2008 at 1:34

Hello Muddypaws , Here are a few of the important reasons and why we started a group. Hope this helps. Remember , a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

Groups can make you a stronger voice.

Group takes smaller tract owners and bundles you together making you more attractive and valuable.

Groups give you the opportunity to look out for the best options available instead of what the O&G's may do individually for one or two.

Group may be able to keep you from signing early out of fear that you will get left out.A group should be able to bring its members some comfort and security. If not, the group isn't serving its purpose.

You can see and hear more with 20 sets of eyes and ears verses 2 sets.

Even if you don't feel you need the benefits of a group your neighbors probably do. Help them instead of yourself. What harm can come from trying to organize ?

On the Barnett Shale , the average difference between groups and individual tract owners was between $8,000 and $10,000 per acre. It appears to be headed in the same direction here as well. May even be a greater differencial on the Haynesville.

If none of that matters then I don't guess there is a good reason to group.

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Permalink Reply by Mom A1 on September 13, 2008 at 3:44

I know that there are some groups where people don't get along.

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Permalink Reply by Snake Stewart on September 13, 2008 at 4:04

I don't get along with some of my own family members, how in the world could I be expected to get along with a bunch of strangers. HA!HA!HA! People want to be treated fairly , or unfairly in their favor for a change! Getting a much better deal for your minerals will supercede ill feelings in the long run I believe. It isn't a popularity contest. Its whether or not a group is serious about this play and know what they are doing.It will be very difficult for me not to hug the stinkin' lanmans that help me sign the lease that we have fought for. If I can hug Ed Hill (just kiddin' Mr. Ed), I believe I will be o.k. with a neighbor or two that I don't see eye to eye with.
At the end of the day you have to do what is best for you and yours! As you yourself have eluded to before. For the average individual there isn't a better option then the group.

If you really think about it , a lot of individuals that are going it alone are trying to mirror the groups offer wise. Waiting to see the jump in price without the commitment to their neighbors. Even in this senario it appears that the group still makes the ball roll. Most individuals don't have the leverage needed to force the hand of the O&G's.

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Permalink Reply by Iris on September 13, 2008 at 4:08

snake, do you get along with anyone? (I don't) :-)

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Permalink Reply by Snake Stewart on September 13, 2008 at 5:10

Well my hottie wife of 15 years still puts up with me so da speak. And one of my 3 dogs loves me , I think.Thats daddy's baby girl ,the blonde on the bottom. Ain't real sure about the other two tho, they are mamas boy's !

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Permalink Reply by Iris on September 13, 2008 at 5:22

There you go, I stand corrected. There is hope for me too. Nothing wrong with mama's boys tho.

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Permalink Reply by Grice on September 13, 2008 at 3:52

I joined a group, but they (?) seem too disorganized to properly represent me, or any of my neighbors. There is no communication, and no signs of responsible leadership. I have made a few "basic" inquiries about the direction the group is going, and have only been given unsubstantial answers. Many of my neighbors are getting discouraged in the leadership of the group, and some feel we are either being misrepresented, or not represented at all. The group that I joined is a volunteer group, but I tend to believe if someone wishes to be a leader, they should share in the responsibility that come with being a leader. Part of that responsibility should include keeping the group members informed. With no communication, I (and a few others) do not know if the group leader(s) are equipped to handle the task, if they (?) are not willing to devote the time and effort needed, or if they (?) have become uninterested in continuing the pursuit. Anyone can create a website, and claim to be a leader of a group. It is not what they claim, but what they actually do, that would determine their leadership abilities. I am not going to reveal the identity of this (assumed) group, as I do not feel it would be proper to do so. However, I would encourage anyone who is thinking about forming a group, to consider the responsibilities that are associated with doing so.

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Permalink Reply by Snake Stewart on September 13, 2008 at 5:28

Hello Grice , have you offered to help and be a part of the leadership group ? I know that we have found it difficult to find people willing and able to play a bigger roll in our group. People may want to help decide things but are unwilling to put the time and effort into it.

I am truely sorry that you feel your group isn't supporting the effort.You are a wise person that does his homework. It is early yet and maybe there is still hope that things will shape up.

I have said on many occasions that a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. If that weakness comes from up front via the leadership positions then you are in big trouble. One doesn't have to look very far to see poor leadership in group form. There have been several subdivisions that were swallowed up due to not haveing any leadership whatsoever.

To play the devils advocate , What can a leadership group tell its members on a daily or weekly basis in a time of slow to no leasing ? Or if the O&G's aren't even close to were they need to be offer wise ? Especially when some of the group really don't understand how this all works anyway. If your group doesn't shape up you still haven't lost anything you didn't have in the first place. You wont sign a lease that isn't good for you no matter what the rest of the group does , will you ? I believe you are entirely too smart for that. You still haven't lost anything yet. As long as you aren't weak kneed you will be fine. Depending on your situation , you may be better off with a handful of holdout neighbors.There will be others left that still want a good lease. Good Luck !

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Permalink Reply by Grice on September 13, 2008 at 6:26

I am not in a position to lead a group, which leaves me no alternative but to place my confidence in others. Sure, I could "step up" and pretend to be a group leader. But, knowing that I would not be able to commit to the effort, would be an injustice to all who may place their blind faith in me. I can not even offer to help the group, if the leader(s) do not communicate a need for that help.

I can say that there is one positive aspect of joining a dysfunctional group... it allowed me to use my doubts and concerns, as a sign that I need to better educate myself, and hopefully protect my family's future. I never had any intentions to place 100% of the responsibilities on the leader's shoulder. I was merely hoping they could help guide me, and offer advice when I seemed to be going down the wrong path.

This forum has been a tremendous help in those efforts, and I am truly appreciative of everyones participation. On that note, I want to say "Thank You" to every member of this forum. Your eagerness to share what you know, your questioning of things you don't, and you overall support of each other has provided me with information that I may otherwise never considered. While I may not know everything there is to know, I am hopeful that I have learned enough to protect myself when the time comes to signing a lease.

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Permalink Reply by Snake Stewart on September 13, 2008 at 6:49

You certainly shouldn't act as if you bring nothing to the table ! I have found many grand points in your posts and look forward to reading them in the future.

You bring up a good (and hilarious) point about the function of a disfunctional group. HA! That even sounds funny after I typed it. I worry about anyone that would place "blind faith" in anyone that was dealing with millions of possible dollars for my area. It just isn't smart. Even if you know and trust the leaders of your group, you still need to learn as much as you can and be as big a help as you can whenever and wherever you can. Makeing calls , e-mailing members. Anything that will take some of the load off of the others.This thing will affect generations to come. Whether we like it or not , that is a fact. A poor decission or bad lease can haunt you forever. This forum has helped prepare me for the task ahead. Even on the bad days and confrontations with some of the others.They have helped mold my understanding of this play.

If you ever feel that you just can't deal with the insanity anymore but swamo isn't a place for you either , give me a shout anyway. I will help you find somewhere to belong. I have already done this for many and would love to help you as well. Good luck and thanjs for the heart felt posts.

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Permalink Reply by Kassi on September 13, 2008 at 4:41

A group has much more bargaining power but it must have strong leadership and great communication. There should be leaders on each street that communicate with the negotiator or negotiating team at least weekly and then get information back to the people on the street. There should be an email distribution so that information can be sent out to all with email every time there is a question or a new development or with periodic updates as to where negotiations stand. There should be a phone list of those without email and people assigned to call those without email to pass on information. Communication and mutual respect along with mutual goals from the outset are vital to success and to building a sense of community that will continue beyond negotiations.

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