WHAT'S A LIE? WHAT'S MISLEADING? & WHAT IS FRAUD?

We've all heard, the landman said "*%#$^" and now I find out that it is not true or it is misleading, or it is a common scare tactic.
So lets discuss what constitutes outright fraud, what is a common scare tactic and what is a downright lie. And what the implications are for each.
A friend of mine was told they wouldn't drill a well for at least 3 years. Now they are ready to drill after 1 year. Problem is he only owns 1/2 of his minerals and won't own the other half for another year. He definitely would not have leased.
Was the landman misleading, lying or did he commit fraud.
Lot's of us have similar stories. Let's share them with each other, so no one else will fall for the same line.

Tags: Fraud, Lies, misleading, statements

Views: 167

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Two Dogs, Pirate on August 6, 2008 at 14:17
Parker, I have bought leases for no bonus money, free leases. You really have to bring your dancing shoes to do that. When I see some of those folks, they give me a big hug and say thanks.
Permalink Reply by Bobi Carr ("parker") on August 6, 2008 at 14:34
I may be naive but I beleive a good landman is capable of doing such.
Permalink Reply by Bobi Carr ("parker") on August 6, 2008 at 14:49
I would bet that you did it without lying too.

That is my point, if you talk me into something just do it honestly.
Permalink Reply by Two Dogs, Pirate on August 6, 2008 at 15:00
I didn't tell untruths but is was hard to convince them into a deal. They all made lots of money. No lying, just partnership in something that may happen.
Permalink Reply by Bobi Carr ("parker") on August 6, 2008 at 15:09
I may be naive but I beleive it can and should be done this way.
Permalink Reply by Ed Hill on August 6, 2008 at 5:37
All reputable landmen should be members of the American Association of Professional Landmen. This organization has a code of ethics for landmen to follow.

lf you have a concern about the landman that you are dealing with, ask him if he is a member of the AAPL. If he is and you feel that he has deceived you in some form or fashion, you can turn his name into the organization and they will review your claim.

The problem is that there is no requirement that landmen have to join this organization. It is strictly voluntary. And therein lies the rub with this profession. You can have a guy selling used cars on Monday and Thursday he can be a "landman" buying leases for an oil company. The Haynesville Shale has caused there to be an influx of people into the landman profession who are less than scrupulous.

If the landman that you are dealing with is halfway reputable, he will be a member of the AAPL.
Permalink Reply by Randy on August 6, 2008 at 13:17
Ed, thats true and false.

I'm a young guy, only been doing this a few years. I can't get AAPL designation unless I have a college degree (i didn't finish, stupid me) or I have 4 years experience. So while I'm a stand up guy, and wouldn't ever intentionally do anyone wrong, I can't be AAPL yet.

There are also multiple type of AAPL membership, there is PL (Professional Landman), RPL (Registered Pro. Landman), etc etc. So it is not just a send in your check type organization. They have ongoing training and seminars, etc.

Randy
Permalink Reply by kfly on August 6, 2008 at 14:24
Randy, I've read quite a few of your posts and it seems that you try really hard to educate and help people. I think some people fail to understand that many answers/comments are just opinions, not lies. Maybe the landmen should learn to answer "in my opinion...". Some of the questions probably shouldn't have ever been asked of landmen. They are not production people making schedules. They probably have limited knowledge in that area. It's like people asking legal questions to "Jay the Geologist".
Permalink Reply by Bobi Carr ("parker") on August 6, 2008 at 14:41
You make a good point. Jay the Geologist has never given an aswer about legal advice.

He doesn't make statements to the effect that he has any knowledge of legal issues.

When you ask a landman, a strait question, and he doesn't skirt the issue but blatantly makes a statement contrary to fact or a matter that he has no knowledge on IT IS MISLEADING AT BEST - FRAUD AT WORST.
Permalink Reply by kfly on August 6, 2008 at 15:04
maybe it's just inexperience and bad judgement to answer when he doesn't know.
Permalink Reply by Bobi Carr ("parker") on August 6, 2008 at 15:14
If you asked me if your toe was broken, and I'm a pilot, I would say "OF COURSE IT'S NOT BROKEN".
I'm inexperienced in being a doctor not in being a pilot, right?
BUT YES YOU ARE RIGHT IT IS TRULY BAD JUDGMENT TO ANSWER A QUESTION THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW THE ANSWER TO AS A STATEMENT OF FACT, BUT BE ASSURED THAT SOME LANDMEN ARE DOING JUST THAT.
AND SOME WILL HAVE IT COME BACK AND BITE THEM. IMHO!
Permalink Reply by Bobi Carr ("parker") on August 6, 2008 at 14:45
Have you ever had an ex-ray and asked the technoligist how it looks?

They are medical personnel. If they make a misleading statement, they can be sued and lose their job.

They are not going to tell you "Yes Sir everything is clean" when they know it is not. If they are smart they will tell you it needs to be read by the radiologist.

So why can a landman tell you that something is a fact if it isn't. Is it just because enough people have not called them on it.

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