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Permalink Reply by Mattie on May 24, 2010 at 2:25

Hale,

Could you provide the township and range of the area where this line will be built? I am curious as to whether there is a push to develop a water line system throughout the heart of the play to accomodate drilling and frac operations over the next few years versus current local water usage and trucking??

If anyone has any knowledge of the companies (producers or pipeline operators) that are developing such system(s) and where they are being located, it would be appreciated. Thanks.

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Permalink Reply by Les on May 26, 2010 at 2:50

I've received the same offer, $150/rod, for an 8" water line in Bossier Parish, Section 12. Not finding any information on the going rates on gohaynesvilleshale , but we can be sure if they are offering $150, we should be asking for more. Anyone have any experience with this?

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Permalink Reply by Big Daddy, bcnr on May 26, 2010 at 14:41

Hale and Mattie, yes there are plans for saltwater recovery lines. One of the projects involes recovering waste saltwater form producing wells by pipeline as opposed to trucks. A much better way for the folks that reside near wells IMO. The saltwater is then treated at various treatment centers and re-used for frac operations. Another project involves buying potable water from paper mills (IP I believe) and piping it to new wells for other frac operations. And yet another plan invloves digging 10-20 acre ponds to store the freshwater until using it for fracing. Supposedely the pond can eventuall be stocked with fish. Sometimes Mother Nature takes care of this. From what I was told, this water is now being dumped in the Red River so it should be relatively clean.

All of these plans are great ideas in my opinion. They reduce truck traffic, use less water from the aquifers, and require less saltwater disposal wells. BTW, $150 a rod is a starting point. Make sure you get an attorney and counter with a higher offer. Make sure you have STRONG environmental language especially for saltwater lines.

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Permalink Reply by Les on May 27, 2010 at 3:00

Thanks Big Daddy, bcnr for your response. That is helpful for those of us living out of the area and trying to negotiate at a disadvantage. Unfortunately, some of the lawyers in your area are charging premium rates just to negotiate, in some cases more than a small property owner stands to receive.

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Permalink Reply by Big Daddy, bcnr on May 27, 2010 at 17:57

les, your welcome for the response however I have the same geographical disadvantage as you since I hail from the Prairie State (Illinois). Most all my business is done long distance. Certainly some attorneys may charge premium rates for their services but I believe you get what you pay for. Keep in mind the HS is still very young and you will probably have other ROW issues arise. If you already have a good ROW agreement done for you, it can be used again. I would advise having it tweaked to address specific concerns for a given project. Most of these modifications are considerably less than starting over.

I understand a lot of these projects will require attorney fees that eat up any compensation you receive. In these cases, I ask the pipeline company to pay my attorney's fees. Some will, some won't. Those that refuse can raise the per rod price accordingly to cover the fees. Same same to me. Afterall, I wouldn't need an attorney if it was not for their project. And normally, expropriation is not an issue with these ROW's. The pipeline company is more than welcome to go around my property to reach their goal. Now, go get 'em.

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Permalink Reply by Jack Blake on May 28, 2010 at 0:34

Jack Blake agrees that it is a good idea to pay a lawyer. The lawyer can make recommendations to your addendum page to the mineral lease. You can also get him to review ROW agreement and make recommendations of things you need to put into the ROW agreement and things you must get removed from lease or ROW agreement.
After this, stay up on GHS and do your own agreements without an attorney and you are good to go.
Jack would like to have a good HS attorney to call so Jack would not have to study so much. All this studying makes Jack's head hurt.
Can anyone recommend a good O & G attorney for folks who have 20 acres or less of HS??

Jack also thinks for folks who have 20 acres or less or probably 200 or less there is no big bad law firm after you. The O & G company attorneys wrote the lease, but you get to change it with only the landman approving your changes. Jack is not hatin' on landmen- jack would more likely hate on a lawyer) Or if you have a good O & G attorney, do use him.

Can anyone recommend a good O & G attorney for folks who have 20 acres or less of HS howled Jack Blake!
Who is best in LA?
Who is best for Texans?

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Permalink Reply by Jack Blake on May 28, 2010 at 0:58

Also ................freshwater and saltwater P/L's................ Jack hopes he gets one of each. You have to see what your row is worth, Lots of ifs about rows. May be best to take the 150/rod now because if others near by want to much $/rod, they will go around and this may cause them to go around you(if you already have the 150/rod in pocket who cares-no P/L and u got paid). Centerpoin ROW agents can write u a check that day.
If you do take the $150/rod do not sign their row without striking some things and adding some things...Watch out they don't slip you the banana.
A term Jack may put in a freshwater P/L agreement. Only 1fresh water P/L and $300/rod for each freshwater line after the first one- don't know if they would agree, but Jack would like to try sticking that into the agreement- if they say no then negotiate, but make it better that what they tried to give you...
How important is your piece of row to the overall P/L plan?
Is it through a pasture?
next to road?
in a easy or hard place to run the line?
any one nearby who will oppose or want ridiculous $?
Lots of things that must be considered thoroughly that a lawyer will not consider..........I'm just sayin said Jack Blake.
Manage your HS blessing cried Jack Blake!

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Permalink Reply by Bobi Carr ("parker") on May 28, 2010 at 5:04

Randall Davidson in Shreveport is excellent. I don't know if he practices in Texas, but if not I would try Eric Camp in Texas.

The phone number for Davidson, Jones and Summers is 424-4342.


Here is a list compiled by Eric of items to address in a gas pipeline. Even though it doesn't address salt water, it gives you quite a few things to consider.

Permalink Reply by Eric Camp on October 16, 2008 at 8:49am
My answer is based on practicing law in Texas but I don't think there are too many difference in Louisiana law on this issue. If Louisiana is different on an issue, someone please correct me.

We price our ROW's based on linear feet, not rods but the conversion is easy (1 rod = 16.5 linear feet). $125 a rod = $7.58 a linear foot. This seems very low. Based on my experience and depending on the location/value/use of the property, you could demand up to $25 a linear foot or $412.50 a rod. And that isn't even talking about your timber. You should be compensated for the present and future value of whatever timber they are going to remove.

Other than the price for rod, you are right to assume there are a lot more issues to negotiate. Here's a list of things you should try to get in the ROW:

1) No surface equipment allowed (or limit the equipment, by name, if they have to put something there);
2) Pipeline should be buried at least 42 inches under the ground.
3) There should actually be 2 ROW's in your agreement - 1 temporary (50ft) that expires once the pipe is laid and 1 permanent of 30 feet.
4) Limit the substances that can be transported through the pipeline;
5) ROW should be for a single pipeline;
6) Landowner is allowed to use the surface over the pipeline for anything that does not interfere with the pipeline;
7) Company is responsible for maintaining the ROW;
8) Company has to pay to restore the property, not just return the soil. Require double-ditching so that the topsoil get back to the top. Require them to keep replanting until the grass has permanently returned;
9) Company is only entitled to access the ROW, not any other part of the property;
10) Company is strictly liable for any damages caused by itself, its contractors, and sub-contractors;
11) Place restrictions on the contractors activities (no guns, hunting, fishing, trash, pictures, etc.)
12) Restict all company activity outside the ROW area;
13) Company is strictly liable for environmental damages and indemnifies landowner;
14) All types of roads can go across the ROW without company's permission;
15) Company cannot grant ROW's inside the ROW area;
16) Company can make no more uses of the property than those expressly granted;
17) Inspections can only occur during normal business hours with proir notice to the landowner;
18) Landowner has a right to recover damages for disruption due to maintenance, repair4, replacement, and other activities in the ROW area in the future;
19) ROW reverts back to landowner after abandonment and abandonment occurs after 2 years of non-use;
20) Landowner has the right but not the obligation to force the company, at the company's sole expense, to remove its structures in the event of abandonment;
21) Warning signs must be placed in one place;
22) Include a Secrecy Agreement so that you can demand better terms;
23) Include drawings;
24) Landowner does not warrant title;
25) Landowner has the right to move the pipeline at its expense;
26) The proper description of ROW (not just the legal description of the property);
27) Written, short timetable for construction;
28) Limit the company's routes of ingress and egress;
29) Require that all roads used by the company will be repaired to their former condition or improved when the construction is finished;
30) Limit the maximum pressure the line can transmit to as little as possible;
31) Require additional payments to landowner if the original line or any subsequent line is replaced;
32) Make company liable for the payment of all survey, filing, and attorney fees incurred incidental to the condemnation; and
33) For income tax purposes, apportion the payments for the acquisition of the actual easement and for damages.

Bottom line, at least in Texas, is that if you don't come to an agreement on a ROW, the company can use the power of eminent domain and condemn your land. They want to avoid this because it is expensive. And you want to avoid it too because of the expense and likelihood of a lesser payment than you could have received through negotiations and lack of the terms I mentioned above.

Also, prior to signing a lease, strike out the language that allows the lessee to lay pipelines across you land. If they have that right by lease, they don't have to get another ROW Agreement (and pay you again).

Hope this helps.

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Permalink Reply by Les on May 28, 2010 at 7:31

Big Daddy, I'm in Illinois too, Chicago area. Hassle trying to negotiate these things from up here. At some point you have to trust that these companies are going to honor the language in the contract.
Thanks to all for their input on this subject. I did use an attorney on the first ROW contract I did last year. I'm comfortable with the language and protection in the contract, but it was for a single gas line, although I think the lawyer underpriced my $275/rod payment. This new ROW proposal is for two lines, one gas and one water. I didn't feel I needed to hire the lawyer again for pricing this second line, using same contract but requesting two separate rod payments, one for the gas line and one for the water line.

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