Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by benny688 on January 20, 2011 at 14:04

The kind of seismic testing I've had in Harrison, Atascosa, & Jim Wells counties seems to work more like radar or sonar.  They run cable along the ground, hook  it up to battery packs and recording devices, let it run for about two weeks and then come back out and pick it up with no damage.

 

GLTA

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Permalink Reply by Aubrey C. Sanders, Jr. on January 19, 2011 at 17:14

vERY GOOD ADVICE BENNY. I SPENT 5 YEARS DOING SEISMIC WORK IN 5 STATES FROM MISS. TO KANSAS IN LATE 50'S WHEN I GOT OUT OF COLLEGE. BOY, HAS GEOPHYSICAL BUSINESS ADVANCED SINCE THOSE DAYS. I CAN SEE YOU UNDERSTOOD MY POINT ABOUT THE ACREAGE. AS FAR AS I KNOW MY COMPANY NEVER PAID LANDOWNERS ANYTHING. WE DID HAVE PERMIT MAN TO GET THEIR APPROVAL. MOST PEOPLE WERE GLAD TO SEE A SEISMOGRAPH CREW COME TO TOWN. A LOT OF OUR WORK WAS DONE ON ROAD RIGHT-OF-WAYS.

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Permalink Reply by Chuck Carr on January 20, 2011 at 5:12

 

I just signed for the seismic exploration on my property in Desoto Parish. This same company has already paid and performed the seismic survey 2 years ago and now they want to do it again which is ok with me. They offered $15 per acre plus they pay damages up front which is basically another $10 per acre. There were some damages to my property and this company fixed the problem within one week and were very professional about it. You will not lose royalties if you do not sign and it is your choice to sign or not. 

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Permalink Reply by Kenneth Daniel on January 20, 2011 at 6:29

Robby,

 

As several people have mentioned, this guy is trying to acquire "the right" to shoot across your land and it has nothing to do with you mineral rights. Normally they pay some surface damages if you agree to allow them to shoot across your land. If you elect to decline, the will more than likely shoot around you and cut out the data acquired under your land. Normally there is not a problem shooting seismic data, they will either use dynamite or vibroseis trucks to create energy or sound waves that can see the formations / geologic features under the surface. It's a way for oil and gas companies to evalutate the prospectiveness of finding hydrocarbons without having to drill a bunch of high risk wells. It all depends on if your mineral rights are in a lease or unit whether you get royality payments. Best of luck. 

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Permalink Reply by JT on January 23, 2011 at 6:16

Do not sign    tell them to go &*&%&$%&$#$@@#$!^%  THEMSELVES

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Permalink Reply by Joe Aldridge on January 23, 2011 at 13:11

I think this is getting a little out of hand. Just tell the permit guy that you know it won't affect your royalty from any production in the future and either sign or not. Its always a two edged sword. It can provide info to the company to increase the possibility of drilling or it can show that the formations is not there or is faulted out. Its a gamble. I have always welcomed seismic crews. In this day and time a company is not going to drill without seismic data - period. Good Luck and I hope you get a well.

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Permalink Reply by Logan Coyle on January 25, 2011 at 5:14

Wow-- there is so much confusion about seismic data it amazes me-- seismic field crews have been continuously recording seismic data in various areas of Texas and Louisiana since the early 1950's.  "Seismic data" was originated by the French (Schlumerger) in World War I-- as a response to the Germans firing their Big Bertha gun at France.  Mr. Schlumberger reasoned (correctly) that that gun would create quite a pop when it fired and that the impact of it--the sound--would travel more quickly through the earth than through the air above it.  So he made a "geophone" which would wiggle if strong vibrations occurred.  When the geophone would wiggle it was a warning that the Germans had fired their big gun.  A siren would be activated by the wiggling geophone and the French would hide.  Seconds later the shell would impact and fewer people were hurt.  Eventually, the Germans realized they were no longer damaging the morale of the French due to this new warning capability the French had developed and stopped wasting the money on firing that huge gun. 

Schlumberger was a national hero.

Later, some other intelligent people began adapting the "science" to listening for earthquakes--and after that, for looking beneath the surface of the earth.  Doesn't it just make sense that "energy" travels more quickly through a denser medium-- travels faster through rock than through air?  Since that is so, once "seismic energy" is generated (via an explosion or some sort of strong impact) doesn't it also make sense that the seismic energy can be recorded at points far-away from the "source" (the point of creation of the seismic energy)?  And if the "data" which is recorded can be analyzed by smart folks, who apply a bunch of fancy math and geophysical assumptions to the analytical process, then couldn't some really smart folks eventually determine a way this seismic data can pinpoint the location of traps beneath the earth where oil and gas can be trapped (and now found)?

 

So, oil companies now hire these seismic contractors (such as Cajun, Dawson, CGGVeritas, Geokinetics, etc) to go out and record seismic data in areas where the oil company thinks oil and gas might exist.  The seismic contractor has no idea what is beneath the surface where they are hired to record seismic data, nor do they care.  And they really don't care much about what is on the surface except for the fact that they need to know what to charge for their services (and the more rural the lower the costs, the more municipal the higher).  Many other things go into calculating the cost of seismic data:  how many geophones (recording points) have to be used, how many energy-generation-points (source points) have to used, the sheer size of the survey, the depth of the source points (you want to drill down to a blue clay--never sand--so your dynamite has a competent medium in which to be contained so it forces a more violent explosion beneath the surface), the overall timing requirements, etc.

 

It's funny, but "damages" aren't a big concern, nor are "landowner concerns" a big consideration when a seismic contractor determines price.   Logan, Why is that-- How can that be?

 

Like I mentioned earlier, the seismic "business" has been going on for a long time.   Seismic guys (and gals) are called Doodlebuggers, and the companies they work for are called Doodlebug companies.  Doodlebuggers and Doodlebug companies have heard it all before.  Trust me, from conception to death, they've faced it all before, somewhere, many, many, many times over.  So let's cut through the helplessness of it all and the confusion of it all and just man-up and understand seismic will be recorded in an area. 

 

What everyone wants is money.  "No Logan, not me, I'm different.  I don't want my pristine land to be disturbed.  I don't want my sweet cow disturbed.  I don't want my water well to be disturbed.  I don't want my house damaged.  I don't want weird people on my land because they might disturb my dear cat.  They'll rut my roads, burn my barn, kill the grass, damage my favorite ant mound, and scare the turtles in my pond.  They'll leave my gate open and let my prize bull out, they'll steal deer horns out of my woods, they'll hunt, they'll cut firewood, they'll run around naked, they'll set up a 24-hour gambling and truck stop operation IN MY YARD.  They're going to marry my son, steal half of his inheritance, pick my corn and sell it for $1 million dollars.  They may paint my barn a scary color and bend my mailbox door.  All my trees are going to die and all my fences will disappear.  Logan, you don't think they're going to give all of my fence away as a door prize in the casino of the truck stop they bring with them, do you?"

 

Back up.  All of that--except for actually "picking" the corn--has happened.  Sometimes the truck stop features a communist war museum and memorial; sometimes it has a huge, free, day-care for drug addicts' kids.   Hopefully you get the humor.

 

The individual U.S. state that you have willfully selected to live in has long-standing oil and gas laws on its books.  Your state will have those laws written so that the state can make money off of the oil and gas production within the state.  Louisiana and Texas take oil and gas law to an extreme--as oil and gas is one of the (if not THE) primary source of revenue for the state (and its politicians- [who need amazing amounts of revenue, every day]).  Your state WANTS companies to find oil and gas within the state; they want to make money off of these companies finding oil and gas.  To find oil and gas companies now use seismic data as their primary tool to find it.  So, your state WANTS seismic exploration to continue.  "Logan, what does this mean?"  It means the laws are written so that oil and gas "searching" companies can search for oil and gas-- the laws are written in their favor. 

 

So, again, stop fretting-- seismic will be recorded and you can't stop them and you shouldn't want to stop them.  Let's revisit that last sentence-- you shouldn't want to stop them.  There are four types of surface holders and if a seismic company is talking to you you are one of them.  They are:

1)  You own 100% of the surface and you own 100% of the minerals.

2)  You own or control the surface and you own or control the minerals.

3)  You own or control the surface but you do not own or control the minerals.

4)  You lease the surface and do not own the minerals.

 

So you know, only numbers 1) and 2) allow you to legally keep a seismic company from entering your property.  But you wouldn't be smart to do this.  Numbers 3) and 4) mean you are at the mercy of whomever owns the minerals and you are only entitled to get whatever you can get the seismic company to give you.  You can puff your feathers out, throw a fit, act mad, act furious, act irrationally-- it doesn't matter.  If they're offering $1 per acre, try to get $100 and hope you can get $20.  If they exercise their legal rights on behalf of the mineral owner, they probably don't have to give you a dime (and probably won't give you a penny).  So curb your temper and get what you can.  And in January 2011, $25 per acre is good money!

 

If you are Number 1) or 2) the $25 per acre is chump change--if they elect to pay you it (because they don't have to-- because what you want is a successful oil well drilled on your property.  That's where big houses, airplanes, yachts, and raw comfort come from.  If you're in the cattle business, you'll never, ever see a healthier bull than one who gets to scratch on a producing oil well.  And if you grow row crops, the best thing you can possibly have is the headache of discing around a producing oil well.

 

A seismic crew moving into a town for six months will almost double the communities overall revenue; through food sales, gas and equipment repairs, tire service, hotel revenue, etc.  If you live in a town and hear anyone angry that seismic is being performed in your area simply look at them and enjoy the fact that you know they are stupid!

 

Take $25 per acre and open the gate for them.  If you're nice--and not the normal pain in the neck most folks are-- ask them to throw in some free stuff for you.  Ask them to cut around your fence with a dozer, widen your road, perhaps dig you a water well, give a new gates-- almost anything.  They'll generally do it if you're NICE.

 

Logan

 

 

 

  

 

   

 

 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Craig Cooper on January 25, 2011 at 13:26

"It's funny, but "damages" aren't a big concern, nor are "landowner concerns" a big consideration when a seismic contractor determines price."

 

For reputable seismic acquisition companies, landowner concerns and damages ARE important. Damages are usually picked up by the acquisition companies so come directly out of their bottom line. It is in their best interest to minimize damages and to work with landowners....all 4 of Logan's types. In addition to the detrimental economic impact, unresolved issues / damages detrimentally impact a company's reputation and can inhibit their ability to win future work (this is often one factor used by oil companies in choosing a seismic acquisition contractor).

 

As for potential damage to water wells, pipelines, buildings, etc. most good seismic acquisition companies follow established guidelines that exclude 'shooting' in proximity to those things. Even though initial guidelines are general and based on years of seismic acquisition experience, specific project exclusion zones may be somewhat different and final exclusion zones are based on actual measurements/analyses conducted immediately before acquisition of the 2D/3D/4D seismic program.

 

The measurements / analyses are generally conducted by  professional companies hired to locate & identify all water wells, etc. located within the seismic project area. Water quality is measured, building integrity is documented (including pictures) and ground particle velocity measurements are recorded (often referred to as PPV measurements). The PPV tests/measurments will indicate both how close to wells, buildings, etc. the planned seismic sources can be used without causing damage and, if the resulting exclusion zones are too large potentially jeopardizing seismic data quality, how the strength of the seismic energy source should be reduced in order to reduce the size of the exclusion zones and preserve ultimate data quality.

 

The state of water well quality/integrity, building integrity, etc. is documented both before and after the seismic program is acquired. This effort impacts seismic program costs but is worth the investment.

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Permalink Reply by fred on January 25, 2011 at 5:59

Logan must be right and rich because he sure has a lot of time on his hands.

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Permalink Reply by Linda Whatley on January 25, 2011 at 13:50

Very interesting views Logan and Auglaize.... thank you for sharing.  

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