How Neighborhood Associations in NW LA could be MUCH Better (IMHO)
First, I am completely for neighborhoods unifying in order to get a better lease agreement with the O&G companies. But I’ve seen reports of neighborhood associations that were frankly more of a hindrance than a help.
I’ve read about and talked to people in the DFW area about this subject and we here in NW LA could learn a lot from them. Here are a few:
Homeowners need to formally belong to an alliance. – Think of this as a union of sorts. This alliance should negotiate with strength in numbers, but all bids should be presented to the alliance for approval / denial. For example, Twin Cities is now going to homeowners and saying if you get 80% of your neighbors to sign you get $X. Twin Cities should be dealing with the alliance and not the individual homeowner. But until they hear the phrase “I’m a part of my neighborhood alliance, talk to them”, enough times their practices will not change. Most alliances in the Fort Worth area accept membership either through Homeowners Associations or filling out a simple form saying that you belong to the alliance. Note: An alliance membership does not remove the homeowner’s right to sign with any company they chose.
Alliances need to reach across neighborhoods. – It was encouraging to see this start in South Shreveport with the ShreveCentre Coalition, but it could be done in South Bossier, West Shreveport, DeSoto, etc. The obvious advantage is strength in numbers, but also the leveraging of resources. More on this later.
People need to understand that this takes time. – Some of the neighborhood associations in Texas have been negotiating for 6–12 months. And almost universally, the longer the negotiations have taken, the better the outcome. Chesapeake just released 25 million shares of stock to raise money to lease land. They are not leaving town soon nor are their offers good until a certain date. Patience is a virtue.
People need to participate in the process. – This is easily the most important step. Go to meetings. Volunteer. And read everything. The more everyone is informed on the process, the better decisions they will make. I would guess those of you that read this site regularly are among the more educated on this subject. Help out your neighbors.
Alliances should not profit in the process. – I personally would pay a small fee to help defray costs in the process. Before you gasp think of this: There are lawyers (and even CPAs!) negotiating leases for random groups of people and charging them a percentage of their signing bonus. I’ve heard 4-5% in most cases. If you get $10000 in a signing bonus, you’ve just paid this guy $400-500. Wouldn’t you rather get together in an alliance; everyone contributes $20 and hires your own lawyer? Then you get your entire signing bonus.
(Note: Most associations in the area, including the ShreveCentre Coalition, are completely free.)
I hope this mission statement hasn’t turned you off. It’s just something I felt needed to be said. Hopefully more of you out there have good ideas that will help our neighborhood alliances and ultimately all of us.
Here is a link of an alliance's web site that is north of Fort Worth: http://360nw.info
I'd like to see this kind of thing in NW LA!
I’ve read about and talked to people in the DFW area about this subject and we here in NW LA could learn a lot from them. Here are a few:
Homeowners need to formally belong to an alliance. – Think of this as a union of sorts. This alliance should negotiate with strength in numbers, but all bids should be presented to the alliance for approval / denial. For example, Twin Cities is now going to homeowners and saying if you get 80% of your neighbors to sign you get $X. Twin Cities should be dealing with the alliance and not the individual homeowner. But until they hear the phrase “I’m a part of my neighborhood alliance, talk to them”, enough times their practices will not change. Most alliances in the Fort Worth area accept membership either through Homeowners Associations or filling out a simple form saying that you belong to the alliance. Note: An alliance membership does not remove the homeowner’s right to sign with any company they chose.
Alliances need to reach across neighborhoods. – It was encouraging to see this start in South Shreveport with the ShreveCentre Coalition, but it could be done in South Bossier, West Shreveport, DeSoto, etc. The obvious advantage is strength in numbers, but also the leveraging of resources. More on this later.
People need to understand that this takes time. – Some of the neighborhood associations in Texas have been negotiating for 6–12 months. And almost universally, the longer the negotiations have taken, the better the outcome. Chesapeake just released 25 million shares of stock to raise money to lease land. They are not leaving town soon nor are their offers good until a certain date. Patience is a virtue.
People need to participate in the process. – This is easily the most important step. Go to meetings. Volunteer. And read everything. The more everyone is informed on the process, the better decisions they will make. I would guess those of you that read this site regularly are among the more educated on this subject. Help out your neighbors.
Alliances should not profit in the process. – I personally would pay a small fee to help defray costs in the process. Before you gasp think of this: There are lawyers (and even CPAs!) negotiating leases for random groups of people and charging them a percentage of their signing bonus. I’ve heard 4-5% in most cases. If you get $10000 in a signing bonus, you’ve just paid this guy $400-500. Wouldn’t you rather get together in an alliance; everyone contributes $20 and hires your own lawyer? Then you get your entire signing bonus.
(Note: Most associations in the area, including the ShreveCentre Coalition, are completely free.)
I hope this mission statement hasn’t turned you off. It’s just something I felt needed to be said. Hopefully more of you out there have good ideas that will help our neighborhood alliances and ultimately all of us.
Here is a link of an alliance's web site that is north of Fort Worth: http://360nw.info
I'd like to see this kind of thing in NW LA!
Views: 183
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by SBossierGuy on
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Absolutely - add any thoughts that others include as well.
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Permalink Reply by Snake Stewart on
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Thank you for what you are doing for this area !
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Permalink Reply by RONNY on -
I disagree with your thoughts on paying a commission to the organization or group negotiating the bonus. Us normal working citizens have neither the time nor expertise to organize a coalition of hundreds of small landowners. Alliances almost never stay together without proffessional leadership. Proffessionals do not work for free. JMO
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That just can't be backed up factually I'm afraid Mr. Ronny ! You or someone else may have convinced your group of this but it is a crok ! Most of the Groups that saw the real money on Barnett only used pro's at the time of signing, if then! With all of the info that Kassi has put out there for us , it is ridiculous to say it can't be done! If you feel you need to pay someone forever ,if its on royalty, then so be it. Maybe those guy's will be sitting around counting all the money that you'll gave them and leave us alone! Just out of curriosity, is this local professional leadership or did they fly in from Texas?
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Permalink Reply by RONNY on
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The group I'm signing with are local business men with long years of commitment to the Shreveport area. I totally agree that nobody should part with any portion of their royalties, and should steer clear of any organization that does that. However 96% of a $20000 per acre bonus is better than 100% of $15000 an acre. I will trust and pay a professional negotiator before I depend on Mrs. Kravitz from around the block to organize anything larger than a National Night out party. I didn't say it can't be done. I just think a small commission to an organization that I trust, that is able to negotiate for more money, and saves me a lot of leg work, is a good thing.
Thanks.
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Hello , You are correct .But is 96% of a $20,000 better than 100 % of a $26,000 deal.No sir its not. Local businessmen that know nothing of this Shale doesn't mean squat either. Nor does their many years of commitment to Shreveport when you realize that you have shorted yourselves at least $15,000 per acre!
Ask these local businessmen what the level is where they have made enough money to start giving away their services ? Not going to happen. It is never enough.Please do not get me wrong, $20,000 is a lot of money ! Especially for folks on my side of town. When you pay someone to look out for your best interests, how do you know that he has ? Nobody knows better then me, what it is that I need! On your deal,$800 per acre is what it will cost you! That doesn't sound too bad.How many acres are there in your group and how many groups do they represent ?
For you to know and trust a professional negotiator, you must be on the SWAT team . If not a local, this guy plays golf with O & G's all day long. And he didn't push real hard for you ! Thanks for posting. Go Haynesville Shale!
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Permalink Reply by Laman_71106 on
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Great thinking snake! It would seem that a record would exist of some of the successful negotiations conducted by these folks. It would seem that a plan would exist as to how the "negotiator" plans to attack the current situation. I have cast my lot with neighbors whom I know and who know me. Someone has been convinced that "WE" won't work in this instance. Matthew 6:33
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Permalink Reply by Kassi on
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I do have to add something here. I have put alot of hours into learning, teaching, going door to door, having meetings, drawing up points to negotiate, printing flyers, writing letters to companies, fielding phone calls and emails, etc, etc, etc. in order to organize my area for negotiation. And that is with the blessing of having a group of about 10 people who help communicate with the 58 households in our group between meetings.
If there are people in a neighborhood willing to take on organizing, learning, negotiating, etc. then it can be done. BUT, I encourage even the most organized of groups to spend a some money to have an attorney with O&G experience at least look things over and give a little guidance. They also need to keep up with the conservation board hearing schedule, what wells are being permitted in their area, the price of gas and learn about the infrostructure required to drill, etc because all of that information comes into play when negotiating. Unfortunately many people are just negotiating for a dollor amount and are not looking at the environmental and quality of life issues.
Also, there are lots of folks out there who do not have the time, energy or know how, whatever the case may be to do all of this. There is nothing wrong with those folks hiring representation. They just need to be careful who they hire, never hire someone on the spot after a presentation (then you are led by emotion instead of common sense) and never pay someone a portion of your royalty. I do think 5% is excessive but to be honest, if someone outside of our area wanted me to represent them I would probably charge between 2 and 2.5% of the signing bonus considering I would be doing a lot of work and paying for legal advice etc. when needed.
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I fully understand and respect your comments , but some of these reps are worse then those sneaky landmen from 15 to 18 months ago. Remember those guy's
Do you feel that your actions so far,have been from one that is inept.I certainly don't feel that way and I am quite sure you would take offense to these charges as well! Coming from the woman that helped inspire me in the begining of all this,it has certainly caught me off guard.
And by the way Kassi , I would have gladly paid you for what you would have done, because I thought I knew your heart and what you have put into this site and this whole area for that matter.You're not some boob from Omaha , like most of these clowns , here just to pillage the village! Are you trying to tell me these guy's would walk the miles you have walked ?If thats the case, then I am waisting my time. If I could find some cat that felt exactly the way I do, I'd give that fool 20 %
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Hi Snake, I agree with you that there are some carpet baggers out there for sure. That is why people need to be careful.
No, I do not feel inept at all. I feel very blessed to have had the opportunity to learn so much and help others learn. It is funny that I got involved in this because I got angry with landmen apparently making offers based on socio-economic class (my hispanic american neighbor signed for $350.00 per acre and no land protections the SAME day I was offered $2,500.00 per acre and a larger land holder was offered $4,500.00 per acre. )Sometimes God puts something in front of you and you have to takle it so I did. I do not regret one thing up to this point. I am just realistic enough to know that there are some who either from lack of knowlege, lack of confidence, lack of time or lack of interest in doing it for themselves, need representation. I have also read the Louisiana laws and the conservation board rules as well as several court rulings. I think it wise to have an O&G attorney give a final blessing to anything one signs d/t the complex nature of the laws/rules and court rulings re, O&G.
Knowledge is power and I hope I have not only empowered myself but others as well. I also have to say, while I may have been the first big mouth to call the press and the loudest mouth initially, there are many others who have been putting knowledge out there. You and DrWaveSport come to mind for sure and Mayor Cedric Glover, in pulling together the Shreveport Public Forums and creating the Shreveportshale.com web site after I called him made a large impact. Lets not forget Vickie Welborne from the Shreveport Times who has written so many informative articles, also, Jay the geologist has provided a lot of education for all, even Randy, bringing the land man perspective to the forum has been very educational. Also, old Haynesville himself who created this site so that knowledge could be exchanged without charge has really made an impact!
Ok, I am going to get down off my soap box now as I am getting dizzy from the hieght!
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Permalink Reply by Randy on -
I'd like to point out we only deal with the leaders of a HOA, however, many times when we give people percentage numbers. It is because they currently have no organized HOA for us to deal with. We, for the record, prefer to deal with HOA's.
Randy
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Permalink Reply by edugator on
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Randy - I'm in SE S'port. in one of the townhome neighborhoods. I read the article about the coalition in the Times, unfortunately mine wasn't mentioned. Several of my neighbors & I would like to see what that group is all about, perhaps even join. I don't think our HOA board is doing anything and we don't want to get caught in a forced pool, and by the sounds of it it's on our back doorstep as CW has sent force pool notices to Ellerbe area. Is there someone I can contact for the coalition since our HOA is obviously doing nothing? Thanks
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