Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by P.G. on October 8, 2012 at 2:28

This is confusing....

Someone dies in Lousisana..leaves no will..state law becomes the rule in settling /distributing his/her estate...but before this can happen..all the heirs must be tracked down and they are all sent a bill...if one of them doesn't want to pay that bill...the succession doesn't happen...

Who was in charge of just that part of the process?...who paid for that?

Who decided who and who wasn't an heir up to this point?

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Permalink Reply by Ken Boone on October 8, 2012 at 4:38

All of the heirs have been tracked down except for the descendants. The whole line just disappeared.

one of my uncles paid to have the genealogy done. The lawyer my uncle hired did the geneology and there is going to be a title opinion.

Ok so if 15 people don't pay, the succession can't get done?

Can there be a forced succession?

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Permalink Reply by Skip Peel - Mineral Consultant on October 8, 2012 at 4:42

Those who stand to benefit from a legal action but decline to pay for that action are called "free riders".  In general they can not be forced to participate nor can they be denied any benefits from a successful outcome. 

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Permalink Reply by Ken Boone on October 8, 2012 at 4:46

But the succession can go on as long as we pay for it? Correct?

They can't hold up the process in any other way, can they?

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Permalink Reply by Skip Peel - Mineral Consultant on October 8, 2012 at 4:50

Ken, as far as I know, yes, the succession can go forward as you describe. 

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Permalink Reply by Ken Boone on October 8, 2012 at 4:59

ok, thanks.

One more question..

Once it is complete and the operator gets notified, will the operator just start paying out all of the heirs, or is it the job of each individual to notify the operator separately.?

Meaning will the others who haven't paid, start receiving checks?

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Permalink Reply by Skip Peel - Mineral Consultant on October 8, 2012 at 5:01

Ask the operator, Ken.

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Permalink Reply by P.G. on October 8, 2012 at 5:08

I'm still confused..

My father died while residing in Florida...none of his heirs were billed..the legal expenses were paid from his estate...his assets.. less expenses..were then distributed to his heirs ...apparently it doesn't work that way in Louisiana..huh?

Same situation when my brother in law died in Indiana..an Executor was appointed..there were legal expenses...they were paid out of the estate as were any taxes owed..

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Permalink Reply by Ken Boone on October 8, 2012 at 5:36

None of the heirs want an executor., including me.

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Permalink Reply by P.G. on October 8, 2012 at 6:57

If I'm not mistaken..those I mentioned..there were a judge and court approval involved..

The only thing..I believe..any one could have done if they were in disagreement or wanted to challenge..would be to file it with the court... I don't think anyone could have stopped the whole process just because they didn't want to pay..

Question...if the estate were not settled..wouldn't any monies from royalties continue to be paid to the estate until settled?

Permalink Reply by GoshDarn on October 8, 2012 at 7:47

Ken & P.G.:

Again, I'm only offering a layman's opinion (being as I'm not an expert, i.e., I'm simply a land/mineral owner who's dealt with a number somewhat "similar" issues with the courts and with operators in Louisiana).

That said, I was hoping some of the "real" pros (with many decades of experience) would chirp up and clarify a few items that seem to have been possibly inadvertently misstated in this thread, IMHO.

First, simple logic tells you that an operator can't let unpaid royalty owners loose their legally due monies simply because they haven't been tracked down or simply because an estate (including a mineral estate) . . . is tied up in limbo.

No.  As I understand it, when such occurs, the royalty monies are initially held in escrow, then after a certain amount of time, those monies are turned over to the state to hold for a serious amount of time in the state's "unclaimed" property account.

In other words, think it out.  If operators could get by without paying such lost heirs, do you think they would have any incentive at all to be motivated to pay monies they could keep after only "three years"?  Think, folks.

As I understand it, that "three year" rule is for the pricing particulars of paid royalties, in that if a landowner/royalty owner doesn't "dispute" an amount being paid, then the royalty owner has no recourse after 3 years in La. to go back and ask for a more fair pricing on the monies paid (or "maybe" even ask for a fairer "price" per an escrow account).

Note the difference in wording.

Ergo, people should think and qualify some possible misstatements, however inadvertent, in this thread.

Also, oil wells on 40 acres could be pumpin' as stripper wells.  True.  And oil can pump for years at relatively small production amounts.  True.  And my rather large family has such royalty being paid to well over 20 members (just in our family) with a total of over a 100 heirs in a rather unique land arrangement with other heirs of other heirships via the same land.  (Hey,, it's complicated, okay, i.e., going back to the ol' days with the deceased grandpas of several families and the first oil boom in La. -- sorta.)

Anyway, because Ken is dealing with so many heirs on 40 acres (but no mule on a possible old homestead tract, more than likely) . . . then the division of that royalty into so many heirship pieces of the pie does cut down on the possible escrow.  True.

Yet still, going back all those years (even back to when a barrel of oil wasn't worth what it is today) . . . well, Ken himself could still possibly be looking at thousands of dollars in "either" operator escrow or the state's "unclaimed" properties account.

So Ken, go to this state website:

Louisiana Unclaimed Property (Monies)

And run the names on your dad, your mother, your granddad, etc., etc. -- and see what comes up.  And, of course, run your name, too.

Note:  Some of the operators I've dealt with sometimes have done quick searches for sorta lost heirs, but when the generations start dying and moving, they then are under the law to turn over the escrow money to the state (after a certain amount of time).  And some of the better operators have been helpful in walking certain family members thru these hoops, too.

Finally, the advice to employ a lawyer is always good repetitive advice on GHS (old news).  For years, that's been the go-to advice for many on this site.  (Old news.)

Nothing new there.

Yet it is very good advice, and Ken seems to already know this per his family having already engaged a lawyer and priced the succession.

That's a start.  Smart move.

That said, what I've seen in my large family and with so, so many new mineral owners (on GHS and elsewhere) . . . is that they want to get what's theirs (and rightly so) . . . but they don't want to pay any money to do it.

Yeah, well -- getting something free is always nice, but when the complexities of a mineral estate comes a callin' . . . the truly wise should consider the return on the investment in legit leg work via using pros (such as lawyers and such) to nail the particulars of a mineral estate down properly (and in due course) instead of wasting so much time wrangling folks who don't want to be wrangled.

Also, having dealt with a couple of operators on escrow money myself (and being the so-called "bell cow" negotiator and mineral-estate manager for so many heirs of a complex patchwork of land in La. -- I can tell you straight up that certain operators will not cough up private info unless whomever they're talking to has been vetted as a rightful heir (hey, think about the logic of that, folks) . . . and even when they are talking to a vetted heir, sometimes certain operators will fluff off the question and simply refer someone to the state unclaimed properties red-tape system.

Why?

Well, operators flip old leases and when asked, some will tell you that they don't even have such leases in their computers since they'd bought the mineral rights from yet another operator.  And they tell you that per incoming calls, that there's no way for them to know for sure whom they're talking to since anyone can claim to be an heir, just as anyone can claim to be a "O&G" professional on GHS (without having been vetted) . . . or claim to be a landowner.

Yep, it's complicated.  So, there you go.  Never easy.

GD

Permalink Reply by P.G. on October 8, 2012 at 8:45

Some info on this here..

http://www.louisianasuccessions.com/faq.htm

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