Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Les Bamburg on August 11, 2011 at 15:07

SB, of course the situation was much different when the construction of the LNG terminals began (declining US NG production and increasing NG demand).  The good news for the terminal owners is most of the import capacity was leased on a 20-year basis and they get paid even if no LNG cargos are delivered. 

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Permalink Reply by Big Iron on August 11, 2011 at 7:56

Hey folks!! 

 

Thanks!  We went from 36% yes votes yesterday to 60% yes votes in less than 24 hours.  Ya done good!  I know it's a little thing.  But it's good nonetheless. 

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Permalink Reply by Keith Mauck (Site Publisher) on August 12, 2011 at 6:35

I don't see the poll on the page referred

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Permalink Reply by jffree1 on August 12, 2011 at 7:12

It was gone this morning but it showed 69% yes votes when I looked yesterday.  Maybe that wasn't the result they were looking for??

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Permalink Reply by Big Iron on August 12, 2011 at 9:25

Yes.  The poll has been replaced by a "Will you attend Ribfest" poll.  If you vote in that poll, when it shows you the results, look below the results.  The pipeline poll is still there.  Click on it and I think you'll still be able to vote on the pipeline. 

 

Right now the results are 58% yes to 42% no. 

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Permalink Reply by Big Iron on August 12, 2011 at 14:51

Sorry Goshdarn. 

BTW I couldn't care less about what's best for Dow (I'm retired).  What I was considering was what's best for the country (energy independence) and the industry as a whole.  Not myself. 

 

I was thinking that it's good to help free flow and access and really to kill the swelling negative discourse in the American public forum about fossil fuels.  I think it's good when folks who depend on oil and gas support each other in a fight against prejudice against fossil fuels. 

 

In my opinion, if we are only concerned about what we get out of our personal wells and attack the industry to protect our personal interest... then we might be shooting ourselves in the foot.

 

Maybe you haven't noticed Goshdarn (what an appropriate name BTW), but our entire industry is under attack from a media led public that is told that all fossil fuels are bad because they require fracking and pollute our air.  I think it would be much better to focus our concerted efforts against the cacophony of ignorance, than eat each other in an futile effort to protect our little chunk. 

 

But hey, you knock yourself out Goshdarn!  Just don't ask me for help when the dogs of anti-fracking are at your door.   

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Permalink Reply by Les Bamburg on August 12, 2011 at 15:44

GD, oil is a global commodity and therefore the oil price is set by global supply and demand.  The bottom line is Canadian oil will go some place.  Lack of oil supply to the Gulf Coast refineries will take away jobs, not to mention the jobs generated by the pipeline construction.

 

Just to clarify, the oil would not go to Dow because that is a chemical plant rather than an oil refinery. 

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Permalink Reply by Big Iron on August 12, 2011 at 16:37

Nat gas and propane and ethane are all that matter to Dow.  As LesB said, crude is moot to Dow. 

And as he also said... crude passing from Canada to the Texas gulf coast will have no effect whatsoever on the price of crude or nat gas.

You are so concerned about money that you can't see the facts.  I like money too, make no mistake.  But that pipeline won't do anything to harm prices, but it will help the gulf coast economy. 

It is my opinion that fighting ALL mis-informed media driven negatives against fossil fuels.... benefits us all.  Of course there is no direct tie between the pipeline and fracking.  But there is an indirect tie between all fossil fuel issues that are lumped together by our foes. 

Creating a united front may be the best hope to save the future of the industry.  Go on isolate yourself and protect your chunk.  It may be a flawed strategy.

 

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Permalink Reply by essay on August 12, 2011 at 20:31

one of us is confused.  for one thing keystone cushing went into service this past february.  if this particular pipeline extension doesn't get built the oil will just go somewhere other than port arthur, into the same global market by a different means?  ergo, their ability to supply "other demand" is basically the same since the supply will  find a buyer.  it has nothing to do with LNG, saudi arabia or alaska, and certainly would not effect the price of crude in any great fashion for any great length of time, due to an insatiable growing global demand.

 

so i think your oil royalties are probably safe from this particular project.  in fact, some of the folks who think we'll never be energy independent and are mostly opposed to this project claim it would raise prices in the u.s. by easing the glut of heavy crude in cushing, and from there mostly going to china anyway.  so perhaps you should be advised to reconsider your position based on the criteria you have laid out.  personally, i can't imagine that more economic activity in the united states is necessarily a bad thing when all is said and done.

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Permalink Reply by DrWAVeSport Cd1 on August 13, 2011 at 7:26

GoshDarn,

I agree with you.  This supply and demand thing is a tricky dance indeed.  And it has been since the 70s.  The U.S. was looking for cheap gas, we found it in the Mideast.  We enjoyed the economic benefit.  But, life has changed in a global way that no one saw coming.  Bottom line, we have to look at what our dependence on foreign oil is doing to our economy, and what kind of trade-offs in safety and energy/security we make every day.  The Billions of dollars we sink into Foreign Oil is not paying for anything in our backyards but one thing, gasoline.  Everything else goes to pay for jobs, infrastructures and building their economies. 

So what do we do?   Who do we cut away and who do we support?  We live on the North American Continent.  We don't live abroad.  We have two neighbors, Canada and Mexico.  And no matter what, Canada and Mexico will always be connected to us in far more important ways than by gasoline. We have to decide to support jobs and economies that support the North American Continent.  We have to find a way to incorporate our neighbors because Canada will always border our North and because Mexico will always border our South. 

We always look TOO Globally for my tastes.  And we overlook and downplay problems right under our noses.  IMO the U.S. has to bite the bullet today.  What we have been/are doing for the rest of the World economies/purchasing their goods/energy supplies...We have got to do with our North American Continent economies.  We cannot move away from Canada or Mexico in any way shape form or fashion, economically, physically, or security-wise.  

We have to find a way to incorporate the North American continent at every level.  And it is going to hurt, but it has to be done yesterday.  Our attentions and concerns can no longer look East and West.  We have to look North and South.  We cannot afford to ignore Canada's economic welfare or Mexico's.  We three are inextricably tied together in ways East and West will never be.

Building infrastructures that benefit our neighbors, that produce work IN Canada, IN Mexico, and most importantly IN the U.S. is our only choice.  In our near future, we don't have the luxury to look away and complain anymore about our Neighbors.

IMO, Our Government Leaders, Our Business Leaders, Our Church and Philanthropic Leaders are making a major mistake in looking East and West.  We are looking the wrong direction.  Every week, Our Focus needs to be North and South.  Weekly meetings with Canadian and Mexican Government Leaders, Business Leaders, Church and Philanthropic Leaders need to be held with one single goal in mind:  The North American Continent's Future. 

Ask one question:  Who will we need to count on in the Future for a Stronger, Safer, Sounder America?  China? OPEC Nations?  Africa?  South America?  Even, European Nations?  Let's get real!

I'll buy Canadian and Mexican oil any day over OPEC, Venezuela, Nigeria, Russia, etc.  I support a stronger Canada.  We need a stronger Mexico where their countrymen want to live and prosper and raise their families, not need to drag themselves and their children into more poverty in the U.S.  Their problems are huge, and I cannot say that their future looks bright today.  But, again, IMO, they and we have no choice but to FIND SOLUTIONS Today.

Our Congresses, State and Federal, are constantly looking in the wrong directions for Solutions.  Firing teachers, firefighters and police officers, gutting local budgets and education, killing pensions and benefits, short changing the American taxpayer to subsidize Foreign Oil?  Just how hard did our Parents and Grandparents work and fight and lose their lives for what:  What we see happening today?  And, our Best and Brightest and Bravest are dying for today?  I say, They all deserve better than what we have seen in the past few weeks.

It is Time.  The turn around is going to be painful, but it's painful now.  If the choice is a Stronger Canada, a Stronger Mexico, and cooperative efforts through the THREE Countries, then I vote pipelines, refueling stations, CNGs, Energy Grids, LNG, oil and gas shales, coming and going, producing and providing, building and banking on!  

We have the answer STARING US IN THE FACE.  JOBS, JOBS, JOBS. 

 

Speaking for myself, I am sick and tired of this wait-and-see attitude.  North America need US now to take part in JVs that get US all Looking North and South.  We will feel the pain now, but I don't want to feel it forever!

 

...Ramblings of a Retired GHS UMO   Next time, promise to rant over in "Political Forum," and save other GHS members from such as this above.  (LOL)

 

Have a good one GoshDarn.  I do enjoy your perspectives and your contributions.  You have been a great help to us GHS veterans.

 

DrWAVeSport Cd1  8/13/2011

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Permalink Reply by DrWAVeSport Cd1 on August 13, 2011 at 14:48

Agreed and more.

It may be a little too early for the subpeona, for me, but the post-Bernie Madoff SEC is looking at more than "EURs" and the viability and economics of the Shale plays per "Some" Companies' "books."   This is a great time for O&G in our country, if "Some" Companies don't #$%^!* it up during the comeback phase.  But greed does strange things.  And desires to be No. 1 can tempt others to "hedge" just a little too much their way at the expense of their stakeholders...

Hoping not.  But some things just are what they are.

And, to quote you, GoshDarn, we may have to just "Bring it on."   

Best to you and yours,

DrWAVeSport Cd1  8/13/2011 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by bret rothwell on September 10, 2011 at 7:40

What's all the fuss? The line is being built. Parts are already in service. Canada has excess capacity that will take ~10 years (by the attached study) to eliminate in the US, thus, the line is intended for export to World Market. Delivery in the US is expected to increase costs in the MidWest, at World Market Prices, less price differentials. Much of the product refined from Houston east is price at Brent crude. The transit costs of WCSB to BC coast is $1.93/barrel plus tanker to China $1.84/barrel.  The transit cost to US GUlf Coast is figured $6.41/barrel. So what is projected for GC refineries: "US refinery capacity additions are projected to be minor." The August 2011 State Dept. and project sites demonstrate the "laundering" of the pipeline's purpose: Make Money....Our benefit is putting Bakken and Niobrara oil on world markets...not the current ~$4+ less than  WTi or NYMEX.

So consider the NOC's buying into the Western Oil Fairway  from the Bakken to Niobrara to San Juan to Delware Basin to Eagle Ford.....hedgin their investment in the $7 billion dollar pipeline project.

 

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