Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by North LA on September 4, 2008 at 10:11

True

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Permalink Reply by sesport on September 4, 2008 at 16:11

Except they have seatbelts & airbags. And they don't depend on the driver maintaining balance on 2 wheels.

Like I said, I've considered something 2 wheeled, but only for short distances. They're used a lot in Europe & Asia, but they don't worry too much about being run down by super-sized vehicles either.

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Permalink Reply by KT on September 6, 2008 at 0:59

Does anyone have a CNG vehicle? I'd love to see one. Even an old one that doesn't run anymore. Reliant Energy doesn't - they retired theirs. The closest place to buy CNG is Baton Rouge. Then New Orleans. No one that I know of converts gas to CNG. I've done a little research on this. It will be a huge hassle. This country is heavily dependent on gasoline. Roadblock regulations are confounding the problem.

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Permalink Reply by Les Bamburg on September 6, 2008 at 10:20

Keith, if you want to see NGV's just come to California. Many of the bus and trash truck fleets run off CNG or LNG. The entire Portof LA/LB will be converting to natural gas. Even some of the companies and government agencies have NGV's.

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Permalink Reply by hot on September 6, 2008 at 7:33

Not so fast. The oil companies still have enough oil left in those holes to fill theirs and the politicans pockets with cash for some years yet. So this idea of natural gas powered vehicles will come but not until we get shafted a few more years.

Now all said and done, VOTE for someone who will help make that possible, VOTE PALIN in as VP.

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Permalink Reply by DrWAVeSport Cd1 on September 6, 2008 at 9:20

If the NG industry is smart...it will court the Oil industry and the Car industry. Remember, the oil companies are vested in oil and they want it left that way. The oil companies want the car industry to produce hybrids of gasoline/batteries not NGVs. In the late 80s, early 90s Mac McLarty/Clinton attempted to move the industry toward NGVs and Big Oil (with Congress's help) effectively killed it off by insisting NG companies foot the entire infrastructure bill, i.e., stations, pumps, distribution centers, etc. No help at all, and the NGV fizzled away. But cheap gasoline back then probably gave NGVs the final death blow. Post 9/11 has changed the U.S. Maybe today, Americans are looking/thinking in a more independent mode. That, I hope will surely change things per pushing for our energy independence. And, the NGV is one of the greatest chances/investments for this change!

Convincing a large enough group of Americans per their cost/benefit in turning to NGVs is another thing entirely. Maybe Mr. Chesapeake can become the loudspeaker for convincing the American consumer to invest in their own desire to become energy strong, instead of remaining energy poor.

DrWAVeSport 9/6/08

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Permalink Reply by Les Bamburg on September 6, 2008 at 10:14

Dr Wave, it case you didn't realize it the oil industry is the gas industry and vice versa. Companies such as ExxonMobil, Shell, BP, etc make more money off natural gas these days than oil. Just check the projects where they spend most of their money. National Oil Companies such as Aramco, ADNOC, Pemx, PDVSA, etc are the ones that profit most off oil.

Ultimately US consumers will be the ones responsible for moving the transport industry to natural gas by buying more NGV's and hybrids. They can also lobby their congressmen for incentives and tax breaks to help accelerate the installation of the necessary infrastructure. Detroit will build more NGV's when Americans start buying them as has happened in other countries.

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Permalink Reply by North LA on September 6, 2008 at 11:42

"They can also lobby their congressmen for incentives and tax breaks to help accelerate the installation of the necessary infrastructure."

In my opinion GM, Ford, and Chrysler are doing so bad right now that they will be asking for federal assistance soon. This may be a good time to force their hand at producing a certain amount of CNG. In other words, if you are going to get federal assistance then you should build a certain amount of vehicles which will run on U.S. fuel aka natural gas.

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Permalink Reply by DrWAVeSport Cd1 on September 6, 2008 at 15:13

Les B,

I agree, but BIG OIL runs the energy show! If BIG OIL wants to make money from NG, it will. If BIG OIL does not, it won't. BIG OIL will either keep sliding toward NG acquisitions or it won't, and it will be a huge determining factor toward the success or failure of finding our energy independence. BIG OIL is breathing down Congress's throat right now wanting to get all deals weighted toward oil exploration, onshore/offshore. Congress has to be convinced to move toward NG and away from dependences on oil. If BIG OIL wins, and it can, NG will remain behind the energy 8-ball where the U.S. is concerned.

I hope you are right, but I am afraid that BIG OIL is the most powerful anti-independence energy foe we have. BIG OIL does not want change unless the money trail leads all the way to its front door. When BIG OIL companies lobby Congress, they lobby for BIG OIL. When NG companies lobby Congress, they lobby for NG, etc., etc.

When these giants of energy decide to work together for America's independence on foreign energy sources...Then automakers will get in line. Automakers want to survive this energy crisis too. Maybe they all need to get in a room and stay there til they hash it out and act like they are fighting for our economic survival...just as hard as our men and women in arms are doing to protect and defend our freedoms!

DrWAVeSport 9/6/08

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Permalink Reply by sesport on September 6, 2008 at 17:15

Here's a recent article about the "windfall" Alaskans have been getting since 1982 for their oil. I wonder if Palin would help convince LA congress to do the same with our NG?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26564403

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Permalink Reply by Les Bamburg on September 7, 2008 at 13:21

DWS, you completely missed the point. Big Oil is actually Big Gas. That is where they make most of their money. The automakers are the primary roadblock to NGV's. There is more than enough demand for oil from the rest of the world no matter what happens in the US so no need for Big Gas to lobby against NGV's. Again, American consumers have the primary say in what gets built. Very similar to movement to foreign cars in the 70's & 80's. If people buy NGV's & electric plug-in hybrids they will get built.

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Permalink Reply by DrWAVeSport Cd1 on September 7, 2008 at 14:15

Les B,

You may be right. But, I saw Big Oil with their crushing lobbying of Congress destroy (before it could get off the ground floor) the NG industry's ideas for CNG in the late 80's, early 90's. With lobbyists, it is never about what is the best thing to do. With lobbyists, it is always about what, in the end, puts $$$ in their industry's own pockets. Don't you think if Big Oil wanted NGVs on the road, we would already be buying/driving them? If Big Oil wanted NGVs, they would have invested in the distribution infrastructure necessary to get a NGV from NYC to LA, i.e., fueling stations, etc.

I don't see it happening without pressure from lots of different directions. It is the nature of the beast. We don't change until a crisis arises, and then we run as fast as we can in an effort to erase the picture of ourselves (U.S.) as a dumb "ostrich" with its head stuck down in the sand, never taking assertive steps, just reactive ones (when we get kicked in the #$%$#), and then hoping we don't miss-step and create a larger crisis. (Can you tell, I am quite skeptical, by nature.) LOL

The U.S. automakers are so behind the rest of the world. But, you may be right about them updating their direction. However, NGVs will last forever, and automakers don't like that idea. Oil will still dominate the transportation industry for years (imo). But, we do need as many energy sources for transportation, heating, electrical, etc. as we can put in place. Becoming energy independent is paramount in every way we can achieve it.

I still believe, my own opine, Big Oil won't share the transportation reigns with NG without a fight for control over the whole NG market. They would rather spend Trillions and Trillions of $ drilling offshore, etc. Nonetheless, maybe today's climate will be the "kick" needed for this HSP to work. And, maybe a younger generation of Americans will be more pro-active concerning where/how they want their energy $s spent. I hope so.

Great debate, Les B.

DrWAVeSport 9/7/08

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