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Permalink Reply by insomniacnla on September 16, 2008 at 14:03

Can you name the group that is making those claims?

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Permalink Reply by insomniacnla on September 16, 2008 at 14:33

I tried to get Chesapeake to do it but their answer was (which I am sure it is the standard one) "If we do it for one person, we will have to do it for everyone and we don't want that to happen".

I told Chesapeake that if they wanted my and my neighbors' leases, then they had to renegotiate on 2 acres that signed in April for $300.00. They would not even talk about it.

I hope that others may be successful because I sure was not.

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Permalink Reply by Grillin' - MmmMmm on September 16, 2008 at 14:45

And is this a problem? If you made a deal with someone and then wanted to go back and double your fee 3 weeks later, why should that person agree? And why should the holder of a legal contract, not signed under duress, tear it up and renegotiate? That car you bought 3 years ago, you know, the cost has kind of increased so I'd like for you to come on back to my car dealership and pay me $5000 more!! ROFLMAO. A contract is a contract. This isn't Venezuela!

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Permalink Reply by Checkmateking on September 16, 2008 at 15:27

I hate to say Gatorpaw, the facts are the facts, I will back up Mark on this one. There arent any redo's in the OG business. Not that legitimate legal issues wont be looked at and fought in courts, anyone will tell you. I know poeple who got screwed on almost 2000 acres in the heart of the play early this year. Life isnt fair. I also know poeple who bought Lehman and Fannie May stock looking to make a buck who lost hundreds of thousands of dollars, I am sure they would like to renegotiate and go back in time.

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Permalink Reply by Tom Bennett on September 16, 2008 at 15:37

Gatrpaw, I have sent you an email. Thanks, Tom

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Permalink Reply by Grillin' - MmmMmm on September 16, 2008 at 15:42

Whatever 'paw. The reply below this one pretty much says what I said. Context? Someone asked if some company was able to get a "bump up" on an existing lease because the bonus was "unfair". Then someone else replied that the "No" given was straight out the O&G playbook. I read them all, got the context. This is a business; companies use data and market intelligence to minimize their costs within the law. If someone broke the law, then string them up. But as long as they followed the laws and the rules, then the ink on the paper stands. What's really funny is most of the companies that everyone claims "did them wrong" are my chief competitors in business. I go against them on deals day in and day out and they are cut throat. So there is no love lost between me and CHK, HK, et al. But when you sign a contract you live by the contract.

And I generally try to interject oil/gas industry facts, standards, etc. as well as technical know how and warnings for landowners. For instance, I posted links to typical decline curves from shale wells to help folks predict what their future income might be. I've also given a few people an oil company's insight/perspective so that they would know what they were getting into. But I really grow tired of people claiming they were wronged when they were paid $300-$3000 per acre in bonus a few months ago. Not wronged...out negotiated by someone with superior data. That's part of what I like about this site...passing out data to everyone so they will be ready to negotiate.

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Permalink Reply by Bobi Carr ("parker") on September 16, 2008 at 15:46

Mmmarkkk,

I don't disagree with you.

But there are many stating and filing suit that Fraud has taken place. As you state, if in fact this is the case, then string them up.

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Permalink Reply by Checkmateking on September 16, 2008 at 15:47

I have heard of some pretty legitimate lawsuits Gatorpaw, in fact I know of one lease for 366 acres was overturned on a technicality. The lease flipper quitclaimed the Mineral rights to a newly set up LLC. to sell to the big boys, and the lawyers were just able to weasel out. But you gotta have big money and good lawyers to even begin to fight, and most poeple dont have a leg to stand on anyway. I also hate to say Mark but corporations sign contracts all the time and not only dont live by them but had no intention to. It would be great if both parties did live by contracts, but sadly thats why our courts are so backed up and half the time you win for losing any, in my opinion, I feel that some of the most insidious insider trading in the history of the world has taken place underneath our feet. They locked up Martha Stewart, a billionaire, on a bullshit deal involving only 40 Grand, poeple have been screwed out of hundreds of millions, and they never had a dime to begin with, it really is sad.

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Permalink Reply by Grillin' - MmmMmm on September 16, 2008 at 16:03

I work for a very large multi national O&G company and I'd have to disagree with you on signing contracts we don't plan on living up to. We live up to all of them and to the letter. Many lawsuits have occurred where folks wanted to read into them more than those letters, though.

But that's why we have almost as many lawyers on the payroll as we do drillers! I've seen a couple of the Haynesville lawsuites; one of them looks pretty good, and the owners have a good claim. This was with a pretty shady operator, though. The other one I saw is claiming fraud because the O&G company didn't tell them about a discovery in the section next door. That ain't fraud and will probably be thrown out. I'm sure many many others will follow, unfortuantely as some of these will cost landowners large legal fees with little hope of success. I would recommend anyone thinking about suing get a second opinion just to make sure they aren't getting hit with big bills for little hope.

Since I'm not working in the HS, this isn't my problem. I'm out trying to lease acreage for $100/acre in what may be the next big next big play. I guess I'm guilty of taking advantage of a lot of people IF this plays out. But we've got to poney up millions of dollars to see if it will work. When the prices get above $10000/acre, we stop leasing. Too high for us.

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Permalink Reply by Bobi Carr ("parker") on September 16, 2008 at 16:07

Mmmarkk,

Which suit do you think has merit?

Is it the one involving 700 acres in Bossier?

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Permalink Reply by Checkmateking on September 16, 2008 at 16:10

I know of one involving 1800 acres in bossier, the case rests on a hidden well log.

Permalink Reply by Grillin' - MmmMmm on September 17, 2008 at 3:31

There was one involving the Mecoms...flat out lied about what a contract/lease said. That one is a slam dunk. It was small but involved an elderly mineral owner. Its one thing to not volunteer information about how big the HS play might get, but its another thing to tell a landowner that their lease says one thing when it really doesn't. If you ask me what the lease says, I feel bound to either tell you or suggest you get an attorney to tell you. Not to lie. But if you ask me how much is the land worth, I'm not going to answer that question. I'll tell you it depends and its worth different things to different people. If you ask me how much I'm paying your neighbors, I'll tell you I can't disclose that (company policy) but you are free to go ask your neighbor. Some see this as double speak, underhanded, whatever, but not the same as telling someone that a clause in a lease requires you to do something that the lease truly doesnt.

Havent heard much about the larger lease positions. These will be much more interesting.

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