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Permalink Reply by LP on June 23, 2009 at 0:31

I'm trying to understand what C30 is. Here is what I got from the article:
Capstone microturbines incorporate lean premix combustion technology which offers clean burning exhaust emissions operating on gaseous and liquid fuels.
What are the "gaseous and liquid fuels" that power the microturbines ? I realize this may be elementary to everyone but me, but please overlook my knowledge deficit in this area and explain this to me. I'd really appreciate it.

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Permalink Reply by sesport on June 23, 2009 at 1:04

My take is that it is now liquid fueled (didn't specify which kind ... gasoline, diesel, bio?), it's been modified into a HEPV, in the future it will have multi fuel capability (to include ng?).

I found this interesting ...

"Langford Engineering will be marketing and demonstrating the plug in hybrid vehicle in hopes of further developing this concept with a suitable automotive partner who could commercialize the product for U.S. use and capitalize on a portion of the Obama administration's $2.4 billion outlined in the stimulus fund to get more electric vehicles on U.S. roads."

Why would they need to find a "suitable automotive partner" here when they're already partnered up with Ford there?

best - sesport :0)

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Permalink Reply by Thomas Smith on August 6, 2009 at 6:39

The C30 is one of the sizes of microturbines that Capstone produces. Capstone produces 3 primary sizes, the C30, C65, and C200 ( producing 30, 65, and 200 Killowatts of electricty respectively). Each of these sizes come in two types
1) gas burning (LP, NG, etc.)
2) liquid fuel burning (gasoline, diesel, biodiesel, etc.).

I am looking at including these as secondary power source for my hybrid conversion kit and custom electric vehicles. I have been doing research based on usage of WVO(Waste Vegetable Oil) as a fuel source. My numbers right now say that I should expect a 1 gallon/hour burn rate for the C30, with the addition of 3 arrays of thermal cells (advanced thermocouples), I should get about 35 Kwh out of this system. Accepted data says that a standard EV should get between 3-4 miles per kwh. This potentially means in a perfect world my vehicle should get between 105-140 mpg. I am actually expecting something closer to 90-120 mpg. Which is fine for me since my pricing of WVO puts it around $0.30 -$1.50 (making run cost around $0.01 or less per mile. This would also give a maximum range (with 15 gallon WVO tank) right around 1600-1800 miles. Not to mention it would just be downright cool. The big issue is the cost of a C30 system. I have been pricing them, and am getting numbers around 15k or higher... Since I would actually like to keep the cost of the ENTIRE CAR around this, this is a bit problematic... *GRIN*

Anyhow... I hope that helps with the questions you were asking. I will now step back into the shadows.

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Permalink Reply by sesport on August 6, 2009 at 10:55

Thanks, Thomas. Although HS isn't producing WVO (is it???? well, maybe down the line someday they'll find some on the fringe... lol) that is some interesting information. WVO is one option for multiple reasons ... getting off foreign oil, reducing emissions, etc., etc.

However, we will NOT reissue your pass back into the shadows. You must report directly to the CNG group and proceed to contribute there. Links, uploads, data are appreciated, but not required. (But be forewarned, there are some who will check your "homeowrk." ha, ha, ha

Seriously, though, bring on some more!

thanks again - sesport :0)

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Permalink Reply by LP on June 23, 2009 at 1:20

I agree with you. When Ford Motors agrees to integrate the system into the Ford Max S, why would they be looking for an automotive partner ? Why not partner with....Ford ??
I'm puzzled by the fuel source:
Langford reports that the "Whisper Eco-Logic" car gets up to 80 mpg in early stage demonstration testing.
80 miles per gallon...........per gallon of what?

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Permalink Reply by Landowner on June 23, 2009 at 1:27

http://www.microturbine.com/documents/c30.pdf

According to this document it uses natural gas or propane.

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Permalink Reply by sesport on June 23, 2009 at 1:34

Ah, thank you. That particular article is for a generator, though. I would think, but am not sure, the same has bee applied to vehicle engines. They were vague in their descriptions of fuel(s) used in a vehicle engine, maybe it was just in the reporting of it and not actually the neglect of the company.

Can you imagine 80 mpg?

Thanks - sesport :0)

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Permalink Reply by LP on June 23, 2009 at 1:37

Ok...that's what I wanted to know. I did search Google, trying to answer my own question before posting the question here, but couldn't find an answer.
Well...this sounds very interesting. An electric engine that can power a large passenger vehicle and uses NG as an alternate fuel.

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Permalink Reply by sesport on June 23, 2009 at 2:01

Maybe the information is still too new, also proprietary, to find published. Trade secrets, ya' know. lol

We'll keep our eyes out for it. Boy, that 80 mpg alone would have people standing in line, but not for fuel.

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Permalink Reply by Les Bamburg on June 23, 2009 at 3:16

Sesport, the advantage of turbines are they can be designed to run on almost any gaseous or liquid fuel (gasoline, diesel, natural gas, etc). The issue is the fuel tank on the vehicle would need to be designed for a specific fuel (gasoline -vs- natural gas).

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Permalink Reply by sesport on June 23, 2009 at 6:35

Got that, Les. I think I may given the wrong impression when I said "multi-fuel capacity." I was repeating what was in the article, but didn't think one car would have the capability to run on various kinds of liquid or gaseous fuels. But now that you put that little seed in my head, hmmm........ lol

Thanks for the imput - :0)

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Permalink Reply by Mac Davis on June 23, 2009 at 16:09

A turbine-battery-electric hybrid is a very intriguing idea.

Turbines have the potential of high energy efficiency and may be able to produce a lot of power in a small package.

One disadvantage is that it takes a long time to increase the power output. If you had a turbine powered car, you'd stomp on the gas, and then wait several seconds before anything happens. They also tend to be less efficient running at less than full speed. They also tend to run so fast that mechanical gearing to drive a vehicle is problematic.

Using a turbine generator may help overcome the above problems. You can start it up slowly, run it at its most efficient speed and power until you charge the batteries, then slowly shut it down and run on batteries for a while.

Turbines tend to be hard to scale to small sizes. They can also have problems with too many on-off cycles. These aren't necessarily insurmountable problems.

A "gas" turbine tends to be able to run off any liquid or gas fuel source with minimal adjustment. You'd have to tweak the fuel mix, but it would probably run off anything that's "clean" in terms of not corroding the turbine. If you wanted to use gasoline or other more "liquid" fuels, you might need to heat the fuel to vaporize it before burning it, but that should be doable. Unlike a piston engine, where you make an "explosion" of sorts, a turbine just needs a "clean" flame.

The trick is making it small, cheap, and reliable enough. Turbines tend to be expensive.

If you can overcome the practical problems, a turbine electric hybrid has really enormous potential.

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