Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Hopeful About Natural Gas on October 19, 2012 at 13:27

Ben,

I am not in the biz, but I have a huge interest in fracking effectiveness and safety. I've been watching the new developments in frack water. Many of the complaints about fracking are about the water disposal.

I see companies like yours as the forefront of rational fracking and natural gas development. Good luck and thanks for your new product!

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Permalink Reply by dbob on October 19, 2012 at 13:34

Ben

You post is fairly close to a solicitation.  you may want to look at the terms and conditions for this site.  

That said, figure anywhere from $0.10/bbl to $.50/bbl + transport in the Haynesville Shale.  We are blessed? in this area with a large amount of available disposal capacity.  Fuel oil is a non starter - there is no way you can compete against disposal in this area at the prices paid for fuel oil.  Its just too expensive on a BTU basis.  

96% = distilled water - we would use that to frac with.  But freshwater is relatively abundant and cheap in this region.  Do you end up with a super concentrated brine or dry solids?  If dry solids, its going to be classed as a treatment waste and need to go to an appropriate landfill.  

Heating with field gas might be a winner in areas isolated from disposal and where water is expensive.  Try the Eagle Ford

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Permalink Reply by Ben Johnson on October 19, 2012 at 14:12

thank you for your input really. Now that Im reading my ad again it does sound  like a sales pitch. I am out of south Texas so i am in the eagle-ford, thats were im planning on trying to market this process, i wanted to try get some feed back, 2.5-5 a barrel this part of south texas at .50 a barrel of fresh. out of 10 trucks one will be concentrated clitorides would be a good guess it would still be water though. Also trrc permits for open brine water tank 10,000 barrels are these difficult to obtain and cost?, 

 Thanks For the response

 

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Permalink Reply by dbob on October 19, 2012 at 14:29

Ben - the permit for the tank is no problem.  the permit for a commercial disposal facility might be more problematic.  However, if you are setting up for an operator (e.g. on their lease for their sole use) not a big issue.  

You are probably going to need an air permit, but again, minimal difficulty.  The unloading pad/rack will be one issue.  Second issue is that the concentrated brine may not be suitable for injection - may want to only get 90% recovery of water to keep the stuff compatible.  There are big companies that are doing similar stuff with this and other technology - you may want to look into some of them to get an idea of what your competition is doing,  

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Permalink Reply by Ben Johnson on October 19, 2012 at 15:41

Thank you again really,  combustion engineer is my profession, There are some other companies fact is i was called with a job offer with a company out of Georgia call advance burner tech today, who are trying to do the same thing. i would love to set this up for operator an have talked to xto, as right now its not proven so im setting up a temp site in tilden and maybe kennedy, i have the licences for the process heaters and the know how mechanically  to make it happen i just aquired the lot an acre of raw land. but im not that familar with trrc rules and regs other than the emission laws that come with lowNOX, 

If im distilling rac water on a site and still paying my residual to be hauled to were ever there taking there disposal already. Would this be considered a disposal site?

the issue on loading and offloading can you explain to me what the requirements are

thanks

Ben

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Permalink Reply by dbob on October 19, 2012 at 16:17

Ben

Under the water protection rules SWR8 and waste rules SWR 98, while you don't propose a disposal facility, you probably need a TRRC permit for a commercial recycling facility.  it may require monitoring wells, notice adjacent landowners, and some form of financial assurance to protect against the possibility of abandoning the waste on the site,  

In terms of the pad, you'll need some way for the trucks to empty, the faster the better.  Many facilities use what i call a drivable splash pad = essentially a basin the trucks can drive into, open up there valves, and the saltwater flows out into a sump and is then pumped to your tanks.  this is most often a concrete pad, and needs to be strong enough and built in a manner that it doesn't crack under traffic. The basin needs to be such that it contains any reasonable amount of rainfall as well as the saltwater.  

The pad needs to be set up for pull through driving or really easy backing in.  You'll also probably need some type of authorization from tXDOT if the entrance is on an FM Road or a State Highway.

Some of the trucks may have some sediment/solids - you may want a pre-filter to keep that stuff out of your system.  Some formations may have naturally occurring radioactive material (NORM) in the water.  You'll want to make provisions for that both in preventing NORM laden water from coming into your facility, and in how to keep your concentrate from exceeding certain NORM thresholds.  

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Permalink Reply by Ben Johnson on October 20, 2012 at 13:41

I like the idea of setting it up on operator location and useing flow back and process this on sight i know it would be a win win looking at all the knowledge about the rules and regs is very well appreciated. believe me im trying to do my research. Im not a sales man i promise. so trrc can help me require permits, Does the county have any say in this operation, i have NB # For my plant and current state license for a mobile plant im insured by Hartford, i have the liability, what about EPA? 

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