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Permalink Reply by Henry on June 27, 2009 at 1:05

The Air Force did a demonstration a while back on this, to see if you could convert natural gas to jet fuel. If I remember correctly, they flew aircraft where 50% of the fuel mix was created by GTL conversion. I forget any more details.

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Permalink Reply by sesport on June 27, 2009 at 2:25

Mac - This is from Florida, copyrighted 2003 (yeah, that far back they were "on it"). Seems LNG was intended for uses in heavy duty vehicles at the time. (see p. 23) Don't know how much things have changed since.

http://www.fuelshopinc.com/pdf/afvguide.pdf

hope this is helpful - sesport :0)

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Permalink Reply by Pipeliner on June 27, 2009 at 4:07

Shell's Pearl GTL:

http://www.upstreamonline.com/live/article150373.ece

You will note that the peak workforce is 35,000 and requires over 200 million man-hours to build.

It is uneconomic to build such a plant in the USA, Europe or any country that has mandated high wage scales and unions.

Such a plant is usually built where you can employ native workers at around $250 per month and you bring in Third Country Nationals for the skilled jobs. Countries like India, The Philippines, Banagladesh, etc supply skilled workers, like equipment operators, pipe welders, pipefitters, engineers, etc that work for from $450 to $600 per month plus room & board and air tickets.

These were the rates on the last Third World job I did, I was told by a Philippino sideboom operator that he had friends, experienced sideboom operators, that were working for $150 per month in Saudi Arabia. It was that or stay unemployed at home.

The key management will be expats such as Americans, Europeans, etc that draw good wages.

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Permalink Reply by sesport on June 27, 2009 at 7:02

Pipeliner - Is this the kind of plant we'd need to have in the US to convert ng to LNG for transportation? I'm assuming this Qatar plant is one making LNG for export, but if those costs are reflective of what it takes to get 'er done there, I can agree with Les' point that it's uneconomical here. And there goes another option out the window, until ....... (gotta love science, lol)

Thanks for the link & infor about the plant - sesport :0)

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Permalink Reply by Pipeliner on June 27, 2009 at 13:03

sesport,

Our costs in the US to lease, drill, produce and transport natural gas to a LNG plant on a coast, and turn it into LNG is so high to be uneconomical. Then you have the cost of shipping it. A delivered sales price would have to be around $10 per thousand cubic feet.

In Qatar, Yemen, etc, they take out all the valuable liquids and products, etc then when they sell the gas, it costs them almost nothing. It is just a "by-product".

Exxon Mobil can deliver LNG, including delivery for under $2 per thousand cubic feet. Though energy sources, I have heard the price is actually $1.85. I have heard rumors that Yemen can sell at $0.90 per thousand, but have also heard their LNG plant was not totally operational, so that may have been on the "Spot Market", on a limited basis.

Qatar Petroleum has spent over $50 billion on LNG facilities and ships and are part owners of Exxon Mobil's Golden Pass LNG import terminal in South Louisiana.

I did see an article about Japan wanting to pay a price of $2.80 per thousand and Indonesia holding out for $3.80. Indonesia is threatened to build a monster fertilizer plant and use the gas as a feedstock for it. This would work there, where they have farmlands, but not in a desert country like Qatar.

I worked 4 years for KBR in Chad, Central Africa on developing the Exxon Mobil oil fields in the Southwest corner of Chad. I worked as a pipeline superintendent laying all the gathering lines, distribution lines, manifolds, water injection lines, river crossings and in-field transmission lines to outlying oil fields, etc to the oil treatment plant which KBR built.

We hooked up hundreds of wells drilled by Pride International. Willbros and a French pipeline outfit laid the 1,000+ kilometer 30" export pipeline out of Chad and across Cameroon to the ocean.

KBR has designed and built about half of all the LNG plants in the world, but the Chad operation was not LNG.

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Permalink Reply by sesport on June 27, 2009 at 13:12

Okay, Pipeliner, now I know who my alternate source will be when I wear Les' patience thin. :0)

If you look at the posts below, however, I think Mac has said that this is a different product, not LNG but GTL. I posted a link I found explaining it.

thanks, hope this helps - sesport :0)

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Permalink Reply by Les Bamburg on June 27, 2009 at 13:21

Pipeliner, I think you have to differentiate between marginal (or variable) cost and the all-in cost. The Qatar all-in costs are probably closer to $5.50 per MMBtu but they would have anticipated being able to sell part of their output at a higher price in the Asian and European markets.

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Permalink Reply by Les Bamburg on June 27, 2009 at 13:09

Sesport, as Mac says below - this is not LNG.

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Permalink Reply by sesport on June 27, 2009 at 13:19

Les - I think we're criss-crossing around on this topic. That's what I said above to pipeliner, not LNG but GTL. Check my link below and see if I'm getting warm on it, or still cold.

thanks - :0)

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Permalink Reply by Les Bamburg on June 27, 2009 at 3:44

Mac, does search for the Sasol process on the internet and you should find tons of information. Large pilot plants have been built in Qatar, Malaysia, etc. as a potential alternative to LNG for marketing stranded gas.

In my opinion it is not competitive as the cost makes it too expensive versus alternatives. It is better to simply convert transportation to electricity, CNG & LNG.

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Permalink Reply by Mac Davis on June 27, 2009 at 9:55

I'm not talking about "LNG", which usually seems to mean natgas condensed to a liquid by refrigeration.

This is "GTL", which is when you take natgas and chemically process it to make a fuel more like gasoline or diesel, which is liquid at room temperature and pressure.

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Permalink Reply by sesport on June 27, 2009 at 12:21

Okay, now I see, I came up with this.

http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/transportation/afvs/gtl.html

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