Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Max on May 5, 2011 at 4:13

From the post:

 

The typical heavy duty natural gas fueled truck costs $40,000 more than its diesel counterpart. Only $4,000 of that incremental cost is for the engine with the remainder being for the fuel storage and fueling system. Payout for the incremental cost is normally less than three years.

 

I'm sure this higher price for the purchase of NG fueled trucks will decrease as more vehicles are placed into service.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by P.G. on May 5, 2011 at 4:38

I wonder how much of that cost are EPA fees that is being passed along..?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Max on May 5, 2011 at 10:13

P.G.

Found this on the web:

 

"Congress has encouraged conversion of cars to CNG with a tax credits of up to 50% of the auto conversion cost and the CNG home filling station cost. However, while CNG is much cleaner fuel, the conversion requires a type certificate from the EPA. Meeting the requirements of a type certificate can cost up to $50,000."

 

I would have to think that the $50,000 would be for a facility like the one Les B is attending and not the average home owner.  I've seen other sites that put the cost @ $2,500, but they didn't say if this cost was an EPA requirement.

 

Anyone want to do a study and report?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Les Bamburg on May 11, 2011 at 17:43

PG, I assume you are referring to the EPA certification fee.  For large volume engines such as the Cummins Westport this one time is not significant when spread over the total number of engines.  For small time companies that do a handful of conversions the cost could be more of an issue.  The bigger issue is the challenge and time required to obtain CARB certification which is needed for engines/vehicles sold in California. 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by P.G. on May 12, 2011 at 4:53

Sounds very inefficient..seems like the EPA could set the standards without every repair and install station having to jump through expensive hoops as though each were the inventors of this technology (how many times must a particular engine or vehicle model be certified fit for conversion?)..I'll bet much could be done that would lower costs and create competition that would lower costs to the benefit of consumers and the NG industry...

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Les Bamburg on May 12, 2011 at 5:41

PG, sorry but you are not quite following.  The stations do not require EPA certification.  A new NGV engine is certified one time by the EPA.  Also, a new engine conversion design is certified one time.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by P.G. on May 15, 2011 at 3:59

Maybe I am confused...

Lets say you wanted to get into the cng conversion business to convert existing gasoline pickup trucks to cng...would there be epa fees involved?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Les Bamburg on May 15, 2011 at 14:53

PG, I thought you were referring to repair shops and fueling stations.  A company that designs an NGV conversion package would obtain the certification from the EPA and pay the certification fee.  They could install the package or may use a licensed 3rd party(s) to handle installation.   

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by P.G. on May 15, 2011 at 16:37

Well lets say the demand for ford f250 cng conversions became popular and several different independent garages in town wanted to get in on the business of doing conversion for folks, sounds like each one of them would have to go through that epa mess and pay the fees to do them if they didn't purchase a certified kit from a source that already dealt with the epa..seems it would be more cost effective if the epa could set guidlines for all to follow rather than make everyone jump though the same hoops and making them pay fees...

Just seems there should be a more cost effective way for folks to convert to cng than what is available now...

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Les Bamburg on May 15, 2011 at 16:50

CNG, EPA does set guidelines but certification is the only way of insuring compliance with the guidelines and to know the CNG engines are meeting the rules and providing air quality benefits. 

Permalink Reply by P.G. on May 16, 2011 at 2:12

Yes and it drives the costs up so high that it discourages folks from taking advantage of cng...Surely there is room for improvement on this..

It makes no sense to spend $10 to save $5,....nice rules to have in place if you want to discourage folks from switching to cng...

Permalink Reply by Les Bamburg on May 16, 2011 at 2:44

PG, the EPA certification fees are not likely a significant issue in people not converting to CNG.  The main impediments to conversion are consumer reluctance (due to unfamiliarity with CNG), limited cruising range and lack of fueling infrastructure.  The last item will be solved as consumers begin to purchase more NGV's.

 

By the way, CNG conversion packages are designed to be added to new vehicles/engines rather than existing used vehicles. 

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• Next ›
• Page