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Permalink Reply by The_Baron on June 29, 2010 at 3:42

P.G.

While every situation is different, you need to look at both points of view. How would you feel if you are a mineral owner, and some greedy surface owner was trying to say that the minerals were thiers? Shouldn't the mineral owner be able to demand from the surface owner proof of their claim?

Luckily, there are plenty of lawyers running around.

YOu need to remember, that it is possible that a sevitude could cover THOUSANDS of acres, and a well many miles away could be holding the servitude. As two dogs has said above, the only search he would trust in a high dollar area is from patent forward. I would have to agree, as no operator wants a bad lease, and most will at the very least get a drillsite title opinion. A full title opinion and division order would be done before paying any royalties.

It would be entirly possible, and is quite common that the minerals could have been sold or reserved long ago, and held by a distant well. This is quit common in central LA where large tracts were once owned by timber companies who the divestred land but held the minerals in large servitudes. These large timber companies and thier succesors are often very diligent in maintaining the servitude to their benifit...This is where companies like Indigo minerals come in.

I am by no means telling you to not try to protect your interests, it is your right and privelage. HOwever, you may want to do the background research to be sure before you go lawyering up.

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Permalink Reply by Dion Warr, CPL on June 30, 2010 at 12:18

PG:

OK, since this thread has kind of taken off a little bit from when I responded to this question, and not being a lawyer (IANAL), but working with a few title attorneys over the years, let me readdress this:

Proof of ownership of the (immovable) property is filed of record at the appropriate courthouse (e.g., property located in Sabine Parish - research the records in Many. Ownership of the minerals (actually the right to capture minerals) is determined by courthouse research and research of the drilling and production activity in and around the area surrounding the subject property (commonly called a mineral history). Much like surface title (usually in the form of an abstract) is examined and ownership is determined by a title attorney, mineral ownership is determined by examination of the surface and mineral title, along with the mineral history, by a title attorney who usually specializes in mineral title and mineral law. The attorney's determination is rendered in the form of a title opinion.

Major issues which must be settled to render a title opinion include, but are by no means limited to:

Verifying severance from the sovereign - this means that title has passed from the sovereign (USA or State) to private ownership. This transfer to private ownership is usually by means of a document known as a patent. At a certain points in time, federal patents began to be issued which reserved specific minerals, eventually including all minerals. In my personal experience, I have not seen such wording in federal patents issued on lands in LA which speicifically reserved oil, gas, or petroleum prior to the early to mid-1930s. Irrespective of wording, tracts patented after 1921 from the State are subject to a perpetual reservation of minerals in favor of the State (per enaction of the 1921 Constitution). Why does it matter: prescription does not run against the sovereign, and adverse possession is not applicable against the sovereign; meaning: if the land was not properly severed from the sovereign (or patented), the land and minerals still belong to the state or federal government.

Tax Sales - Tax sales after 1921 are routinely checked in abstracts run from patent to verify that lands are not adjudicated to the State of Louisiana. Lands adjudicated to the state for non-payment of taxes that are not redeemed within the prescribed period belong to the state, for the same reasons listed above. Any mineral rights belonging with said lands to or prescribing to the state are vested into the State in perpetuity.

Production history - subject to the above, if one runs the title to a tract of land ten years prior to the first reported drilling or production activity in the area, thence run forward to date, one can obtain a reasonable idea as to has claim to the mineral rights. Reason being: any servitude created and running with the land will prescribe after ten years of non-use. However, wells drilled to a reasonable target in pursuit of a good-faith attempt at obtaining oil and/or gas will serve to interrupt the running of prescription of the servitude. Wells drilled on the burden tract will interrupt the entire servitude as to that portion contiguous with the burden tract; wells drilled within a unit off of the burden tract will only interrupt the servitude as to that portion lying within the unit.

Title snafus - here are some of the most common plot complications when trying to do 'quickie' title:

Incomplete title or stray deeds: In short, situations that result in certain parties unexpectedly leaving or entering the chain of title. Happens fairly commonly with family properties and in rural areas, where opening successions or the lack of filing succession documents in all proper venues occurs (e.g., relative dies in one parish and owned property in another, but executor or related party did not file a Judgment of Possession in the other parish, or no succession opened) - Usually solved with the proper filings or (an) Affidavit(s) of Death and Heirship from a disinterested third party who knows the family for a great deal of time, but not always. It is also possible to have dual chains of ownership on disputed tracts - many of these are placed into suspense and a concursus filing is made.

Large servitudes: Institutional or large private landowners very commonly and intentionally create large contiguous mineral servitudes on properties which are vested into holding entities, and then subsequently carve up the surface in smaller parts. As long as wells are being drilled in good-faith, operated, or produce on these large servitudes, the companies can maintain these minerals. Thus if one runs a particular tract in reverse (vendee) in the records and finds that their property belonged to a larger tract of land owned by a timber company - it may be Katie bar the door. These companies very commonly track their interests and will often attempt to promote operations which will perpetuate their mineral ownership.

Old and/or intermittent production: Around many old fields, drilling and development occurs in fits and starts over many years, and many parties simply reserve whatever minerals that they may own as a matter of course, whether they own minerals are not. This requires close examination of the title and mineral history to determine what is owned, when they owned it, and did any or all such reservations have any effect, as mineral servitudes prescribe to the instant surface owner at the time of prescription (in other words, it does not follow the chain or mineral reservations, and reservations of minerals made by purported owners that do not own minerals at the time are of no effect whatsoever.

If you're doing this on your own, when dealing with the land representative, ask them who they show in ownership of the tract, or if they show a title defect that needs to be solved. Sometimes, a minimal chain (or single deed) is sufficient. Other times, some curative work needs to be done (e.g., Affidavit of Death and Heirship, copy of Death Certificate, etc.) which the company rep can let you know about or send you the proper forms and instructions to effect the transfer of ownership in their system. Crazy enough, sometimes they just need a current address and tax identification information.

With respect to owner information of unleased mineral interest, companies will generally make a 'best effort' to identify the owners (not absolutely 100% info on 100% of the owners). However, they must account for 100% of the ownership and pay accordingly. "Mystery UMI" does not just go into the company's coffers, it must be accounted for, escrowed, and turned over to the state unclaimed property after a certain period of time.

Not you that have to hire me, specifically, but I advocate contracting the services of a landman or attorney (not just to file suit!) in dealing with these types of matters, in that someone "in the business" can usually ask the right questions of the company rep to get to the heart of the matter and put you in the right direction. Otherwise, the m/o doesn't know what they want, the company rep is none the wiser, and everyone gets aggravated.

In the end, you might just get aggravated anyway, but, IMO, it's worth a shot to try things on your own prior to getting mad and filing suit. Just my opinion, though.

Good luck to you.

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Permalink Reply by keb on July 2, 2010 at 19:05

Dion, please contact me regarding tax sale at efon911@yahoo.com, as to hiring someone.

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Permalink Reply by Henry on June 27, 2010 at 23:32

flatlander,
Since you seem to be having some luck with your operator regarding being an UMO, would you mind starting a blog on this site to share your experiences? It would help all other UMOs to see how it worked. If you could share when you sent correspondence, what replies came back, what difficulties you had, or if the company was pleasant to work with. All of this would be very interesting to the many UMOs on this site.

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Permalink Reply by flatlander on June 29, 2010 at 10:04

I'll give it a try and we can see how it goes.

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Permalink Reply by Henry on June 29, 2010 at 12:48

Great! We would all like to follow your progress.

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Permalink Reply by OLYMAN on June 29, 2010 at 18:03

Henry, My sister Pam and I are umo's and members of this site, We ask Keith to start a group for umo's to share this type of information, for some reason he has not, wonder why?

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Permalink Reply by jffree1 on June 29, 2010 at 18:09

OLYMAY, anyone can open a group. Just scroll down to "Groups", under discussions on the main page and look for the +Add a Group icon. It is a fairly simple process and as an interested party you would be a great person to open that group.

It would also be easy to find Flatlander's posts about his experiences if they were under that heading.

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Permalink Reply by OLYMAN on June 29, 2010 at 18:26

Thanks jffree1, I let that one slip by me,

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Permalink Reply by OLYMAN on June 29, 2010 at 18:37

But if my memery serves me right my sister tried to start a group using that icon. Then Keith e- mailed her wanting to know what would be discussed in that group. She replied to his e-mail but never heard back and the group was not put up

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Permalink Reply by jffree1 on June 29, 2010 at 18:48

OK, in that case you can either try it again... in case he forgot to approve it or send him another e-mail and ask him again. Squeaky wheels...

Permalink Reply by OLYMAN on June 29, 2010 at 18:54

Thanks again jffree1and goshdarn , I know Keith is super busy with every thing on his plate right now.

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