Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by P.G. on June 27, 2009 at 17:15

The American people are not stupid! They are just being fooled!
That climate bill will do nothing to change climate or they would be telling us just how or what will change.
That bill will, however, give the Fed government unimaginable power over each of us they've never had before and like we've never experienced before.
People need to wake up and examine this a bit closer before it's too late to undo it!
It's such a historic bill that will change the American way of life as we know it.
There has to be a reason they are pushing this as quickly as they are and I'll bet it has nothing to do with the weather!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by red rider on June 28, 2009 at 19:16

yeah, they are pushing it before we vote in more repubs to block them. the dems own the house, senate and presidency. Thats the hurry, next year we vote for congress changes. The dems own it all right now. They can't wait till after 2010 elections, they might not have the majority.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by red rider on June 28, 2009 at 18:54

I think this cap and trade is going to destroy domestic drilling. why? Well I am glad you asked. I can sum it up in one word. TAX. The fed is going to tax domestic drilling so hard they will either shut down drilling or move overseas. Which means the USA will be even more dependant on foriegn sources of oil and gas. So, I think oil and nat gas prices may increase substantially on a global basis. Because domestic drilling will virtually cease. If the senate votes this piece of shiite through, your monthly mailbox money from your well or wells will dwindle to almost zero. Which means all the oil and gas workers are going to have to pack up and move out meanwhile as they join the ranks of the unemployed.
You wanted change? well if the senate votes this in, then by golly you just got change. It is imperative that everyone calls their senator and demand that they vote NO on this energy bill.

People, this is the worst legislation in the history of the USA. You thought you were poor before. You ain't seen nothing yet! This bill bill must die. I can't be any more clear on this. Microsoft Company has mentioned that they will move to Canada as a result of this bill. They will be taxed too much. look it up on google search: microsoft moving. you'll see what I mean.

I just listened to a podacst on financialsense.com and we are in for a MAJOR world of hurt in the likes of which we may have never seen in our life.




http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/dancy/2009/0626.html

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by w.r. frank on June 29, 2009 at 2:19

Robert,

Your aversion to any tax for any purpose clouds your judgement regarding economic reality. NG prices are down based on fundamental supply/demand economic principles. The US domestic NG production has increased significantly over the last two years because of increased rig count and newly discovered resources. At the same time demand for NG in the industrial sector is down dramatically because of the recession. Ergo supply up/demand down, prices for NG go down and rig count drops.

I do not think the cap and trade legislation contains any tax on O&G companies. It has a much delayed tax on CO2 emissions that kicks in over time after 2015. Initially, the emission permits are given FREE to the emittors, who can sell them and keep the money (supposedly to invest in reducing carbon emissions). It is generally believed that NG will benefit vs. coal since the CO2 emissions are much lower than coal and coal will have huge capital costs and the technological risk that CCS can be perfected and deployed.

The net result will be more usage (demand) for natural gas and an increase in NG price, which should result in more rig count (drilling and jobs) and increased supply. Once again the old economic supply/demand rules will apply.

I would say that your views regarding drilling, jobs, flight of US companies are 100% totally wrong and defy the fundamental principles of economics.

There are separate proposals being discussed regarding intangible drilling costs and depletion. These proposals are NOT in the cap and trade legislation and certainly haven't passed a committee in either the House or Senate.

Would you please post from a credible source a statement by Microsoft Corporation that it would move its company to Canada if cap and trade passes. I have been to the Microsoft offices in the Seattle area many times. That would be quite an undertaking. It is my understanding that the enlightened technology companies such as MSFT, Google, Intel, etc. are supporters of cap and trade. climate change legislation in general and more active energy comsumption regulations.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by red rider on June 29, 2009 at 4:46

microsoft is considering moving more jobs overseas, though not related to the energy bill.


http://www.crncanada.ca/index.php/CRN-Tech/index.php?option=com_vir...

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by w.r. frank on June 29, 2009 at 5:48

Hi Robert,

Your earlier post stated: "Microsoft Company has mentioned that they will move to Canada as a result of this bill. They will be taxed too much. look it up on google search: microsoft moving. you'll see what I mean."

I challenged your to produce a credible statement backing up your claim. YOU HAVE NOT POSTED SAME BECAUSE THERE ISN"T ANY!

The above link relates to a tax issue on moving jobs offshore. It has NOTHING to do with the Climate Change bill before Congress or MSFT moving to Canada.

WHY DO YOU POST SUCH FALSE, WRONG C**P on this site! You can be opposed to the Climate Change bill and debate it and write your congresspersons and senators, but don't post unadulterated lies to somehow support your views. You cheapen your argument.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by red rider on June 29, 2009 at 18:21

w.r. frank, i was trying to establish the point ( which i did a poor job of), but what i was trying to say was, that business is only in business to make money. and over the past 30 years many companies have in fact moved overseas due to taxes imposed by congress. I was wrong in my blanket statement about microsoft completely moving overseas, it's not related to the climate change bill, but i have provided a link showing that microsoft is certainly considering their options.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by P.G. on June 29, 2009 at 4:47

Yep this is bad!
It's so sad folks would sell out their freedoms all in "Hope" (no guarantees) of gaining a little mailbox money?
That climate change bill will grant the federal bureaucracy unprecedented power over us like we have never ever seen before! That bill gives the government the right to force you to update your home and all it's mechanicals (electric, AC, heat, etc.) as well as appliances! Let's not forget automobiles!
That bill will create millions of jobs! Millions of government jobs to fill all the bureaucracy to enforce it!
Guess who's going to get the bill for all this!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jon Williamson on June 29, 2009 at 5:12

We obviously have to do something to get off of fossil fuels. Natural gas seems like the logical bridge as far as a transportation fuel. It would go a long way to get us off of imports. Unfortunately our democrat leadership (?) think natural gas drillers are evil and greedy. It may take years to be accepted as such a bridge.

Why not just tax the end user of carbon. It is going to trickle down anyway with higher prices for everything. Taxes to consumers on gasoline and electricity would dramatically decrease our carbon footprint and get people to conserve. This tax revenue could be used to subsidize renewable projects, although with all the red tape and huge government who knows if we can actually build these industries to replace fossil fuels. It just seems to me it would be so much simpler and require far less govt intrusion into our lives, less government is a good thing I think. We are going to be taxed anyway. Why not go to the end of the line instead of the front? Taxing the polluters will only kill jobs and send jobs overseas. But I guess people are the ones who vote. Taxing the companies makes it seem easier and less costly on the individual taxpayer, when actually it's the same.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by w.r. frank on June 29, 2009 at 17:13

Who is going to update your home and mechanics. Answer: A heating and AC guy from your hone town.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by April on June 29, 2009 at 16:18

I have to agree with Frank on the companies not packing up and moving out of the US. Most of these companies have entirely too much invested into the US. Not saying that some won't move or further move their exploration and production overseas. I don't want the bill to pass either. As far as the rig count Robert, have you taken a look at that lately. Granted it has went up in the last two weeks but it is also down 996 from this time last year. That's alot of rigs in the contential US. I'd think the technology companies you have an interest if you could see the rigs that are being built these days. They are more electronical and digital than many people think. Everything is going to computers if they haven't already, even drilling rigs.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Lynn on June 29, 2009 at 12:07

Mr. Frank,

You seriously have hostility issues. Please refrain from bashing others as you make your points. We have freedom of expression here in the US at least for the moment so let's try to use it in a productive way.
When I made my points, I started out with (respectfully).
I find it fascinating that people that want bigger government tend to get ruffled when any point is challenged. Our constitution protects sovereignty which is what we are giving up by letting other countries run ours. Our president does not make decisions on what is best for the US but how it fits into the larger world schematic. What part of the fact the China holds most of our debt is not a good thing? The one world alliance is just around the corner and this energy bill is moving that way. I do not think that any research from any source would be good enough to prove my point whether it is from the China news agencies, Moscow Times, or any other world paper. I could quote from the G8 summit as well.

• ▶ Reply

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• 4
• 5
• 6
• …
• 8
• Next ›
• Page