Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by JHH on December 12, 2014 at 4:05

Very good post... i'd like to know too.  is this a NatGas or oil pipeline?  

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Al Funderburk on December 12, 2014 at 4:28

Gas

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by tc on December 12, 2014 at 5:07

Is there any reason why the value of an easement in south Georgia would be any different than the value in any other part of the country?

Yes, the rates can vary because of supply and demand.  How many options does the pipeline have in varying the route slightly.  Second and most likely the biggest variable, what is the view of the state regulators and courts on eminent domain.  For example almost every state has a force pooling law on the books and some are more friendly to the mineral owner and some like Mississippi are very operator friendly.

I would also search the sister site Eagleford Forum for discussions on pipelines as a lot of new pipelines have been built in South Texas to move all the new EF oil.  This looks like a good discussion.

http://eaglefordforum.com/profiles/blogs/natural-gas-pipeline-easem...

http://eaglefordforum.com/

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Al Funderburk on December 12, 2014 at 5:22

Thanks tc. Presumably the demand for natural gas in central Florida exceeds the supply or there would be no pipeline project on the table. The route that has been proposed is along an existing ROW with a much smaller and older pipe that is operated by another company. The route that has been included in the FERC application and will likely be approved is the route through our properties so there would appear to very few if any alternate routes available. From the economic viewpoint of the operator, they want to acquire the necessary rights as cheaply as possible. If an operator can pay $36 or $72 or whatever amount you choose for an easement in Texas, or Oklahoma or Pennsylvania, why would they not be able to pay the price in Georgia?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Bacon on December 12, 2014 at 7:46

Since 2008, we've got from $500 a rod for a 10" to almost $800 a rod for a 42". Get an experienced ROW attorney if you expect to get top dollar. We're in Red River parish , LA.

If you do a search on here, there is a good list of things to TRY and include in your ROW agreement that was provided by an attorney.

I think if you can hold out to the end, you will make out better as well. These things seem to move pretty fast once they get the FERC cert. they don't seem to have much patience after that.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by randy dawson on December 12, 2014 at 12:39

Mr. Funderburk  as the guy said ....wait, wait, wait......they will mention they can take it at some point and time, which is true, but they had rather forgo a lawsuit.....try to find out what others have been offered.....by the way by the acre is better since they tend to expand their easement....the 50 foot is probably a permanent easement but they will probably want a temporary easement in addition...At this point let me say I had a 42 inch gas pipeline go through two different tracts....tried to get them to route around but no luck, so got as much cash as possible....They paid me for the timber on one tract which they were going to push up and burn....so they let me sell it .... a two for one in this case... There are all sort of things you will need to request to have done when they redo the land, such as put the topsoil back...plant with grass....No trees can be put back on the permanent easement.  Maybe you will need a fence .... specify IN DETAIL EVERYTHING YOU WANT DONE IN WRITING....I had a lawyer friend look over my stuff when I finished..... and still did not get it all done.... Not sure of your soil Ph....I had to have 2 tons per acre put on after they finished....I did the soil test at my cost.....Look to the future and try to figure out what you will need for this land....Once you sign the papers,  it is all over....By the by I had approximately 13 acres and got a whole LOT more than they are offering you....LOTS....if fact I discovered there was land they used that was not paid for up front.....got an extra check for 20,000.00 at a later date....I did push them to the limit however......do what you feel comfortable with..will be glad to tell you more at email rcdawson1@aol.com..Randy.....  Oh, forgot....I think there is one and one half million cubic feet of gas going through this pipeline everyday....think they are not making their money back???  Forgot about the mowers coming through....be sure you have an understanding about this is you have a crop on the land....those folks will mowed it down if not told differently...

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Two Dogs, Pirate on December 13, 2014 at 8:32

Randy there is way more than 1 & 1/2 million going through a 42 inch line.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by full name on December 13, 2014 at 8:11

Here are a few suggestions:

Survey

Make it difficult.

Require a nominal payment to survey ($10).

Specify exactly where they can survey- Put in a penalty clause if they violate the survey restrictions. (I use $100,000).   You can use the completed survey they send you to determine if there is a violation

Require liability insurance certificate assigned to your name. (At least a million). 

Require proof of insurance for all vehicles on your property.

Require proof of workman’s comp insurance.

Don’t use their form do your own.

 

Actual contract

 

Specify, specify, specify

A few things to specify

Number of pipelines

Pipeline diameter

Pipeline depth

Fencing, gates and locks

Exact placement of anything above ground (cathode protection, clean out ports)

Land remediation after a year to fix any sunken areas.

Most favored nation status for 10 to 20 miles (this means that you will get the highest price in the area specified)

Insurance for life of pipeline (see survey)

Return of property if pipeline is not used for a period of time (I go for 18 months)

When they start to balk tell them you know you cannot stop this but you want to make sure there are no surprises on either end

Good luck

 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by B on December 15, 2014 at 10:18

Find an attorney licensed in Georgia who handles pipeline eminent domain cases.  You can contact the local bar associationl for names.  Interview several.  Go with the one you think will help you the most and is the most reasonable.  Hold out until the pipeline company files a condemnation lawsuit.  Your attorney can settle this with the pipeline company out of court, and you will get way more in the end.  

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by J B Nabors on February 3, 2015 at 14:16

Very good posts by full name and Randy Dawson.  Some more points:

*  EMPHASIS on getting good ROW lawyer, familiar with your area.

*  If you wish to continue using the land for agriculture, specify that the pipeline must be buried deeply enough not to interfere with regular crops.  I believe that the normal depth is about 36-42" but you can specify a depth to which the pipeline must be buried.

* Specify the type of gates you want where the pipeline crosses your property border.

* You should specify that you get 1) damages for the timber on the ROW; 2) are allowed to salvage the timber; and 3) that you get future damages for not being able to grow your timber on that ROW. 

* You can specify what kind of grass, forage, or game fodder you want planted on the ROW

* Specify that the pipeline create specific safe crossing sites on the pipeline for your timber trucks and equipment to cross.

* Do you have coal or lignite under your property that you will be unable to produce?

* Do you really want the ROW and the money, or would you rather have your property undisturbed?  That makes a difference in how difficult you want negotiations to be.  

* How difficult would it be for the pipeline to route around your property? (As I recall, here in DeSoto Parish, Acadian told us that it cost them about $4,000,000 a mile to acquire the ROW and build a 42" pipeline. They were paying by the rod.) 

So, how to calculate which is better:

* An acre contains 43,560 sq ft.

* The pipeline company wants a 75' Easement, 50' of which will be permanent.

* Dividing 43,560 sq ft by 75' = 580.8'; ergo, 1 acre of surface ~ 580.8' of a 75' width

* A rod is 16.5' long or 11 cubits.

* dividing 580.8'  by 16.5' / rod = 35.2 rods

Good Luck

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Harold on December 15, 2014 at 10:40

A fifty ft permanent easement, depending on diameter of pipe, number of lines in the easement, product(s) being transported, pressure along with property use restrictions for different land utilization, could result in up to several thousand feet setback on what you or future owners can actually do with your property. Be careful what you sign away. Best check with a successful ROW attorney. Permanent easement means just that, and usage of that easement may change.

I heard a presentation last spring at the annual OK-NARO convention that every landowner should know about.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Lerret on December 19, 2014 at 16:50

An offer in E. Arkansas was recently reported to me that was about $180 per rod (16½ feet)

• ▶ Reply

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• Next ›
• Page